# Alternatives to Al-Anon? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 7, 2015, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221 "2015-09-07T01:23:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221/21 "2015-09-07T15:10:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Personally, I have no need for the help. I am just saying that there are alternatives to both the 12-step programs and the idea that alcoholism is an incurable disease. I don’t doubt there are. And I am sure they work for some, but not for others. But if some people have the wrong idea about AA, it just takes one opportunity away that might work for them. Or not, that’s OK too. I just feel like I should set the record straight, from my perspective. Others, some in AA, will disagree. That’s OK too. What ever works. All I know is, if someone thinks they have a problem, they probably do, and they will be more successful by trying something than by trying nothing. Whether that is AA or something else is entirely up to them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221/22 "2015-09-07T15:16:11Z")
One group to definitely avoid is “Narconon”(note the spelling). They claim to have an incredibly high success rate with narcotic and alcohol addiction, but they are actually a front group for Scientology. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221/23 "2015-09-07T15:52:48Z")
As it hasn’t been suggested yet, private therapy is also an option. Early in, it may be more helpful that Al-Anon, which is a place to just share, without judgement or feedback. Private therapy is more likely to have someone saying to you “and can you control that? What can you control about that?” In other words, someone coaching you on coping skills, the changes you need to make to your behavior for you to stay healthy - or the skills you need to walk away if that is what you determine is right. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221/24 "2015-09-07T15:59:26Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > As it hasn’t been suggested yet, private therapy is also an option. Early in, it may be more helpful that Al-Anon, which is a place to just share, without judgement or feedback. Private therapy is more likely to have someone saying to you “and can you control that? What can you control about that?” In other words, someone coaching you on coping skills, the changes you need to make to your behavior for you to stay healthy - or the skills you need to walk away if that is what you determine is right. Note that the OP is not the drinker. The OP is looking for ways to deal with a possibly problem-drinking companion. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221/25 "2015-09-07T16:02:37Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Note that the OP is not the drinker. The OP is looking for ways to deal with a possibly problem-drinking companion. Another good reason why private therapy might be a good alternate. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221/26 "2015-09-07T16:12:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Another good reason why private therapy might be a good alternate. But for which party? Therapists don’t tend to have a lot of tools to help a third party - in some ways, they’re barred from doing such things. Help for the OP in coping and finding a way to have a useful discussion with the partner, yes. But that still leaves the solution, if any is needed, to some other person or entity. (IME, a therapist who has seen one member of a couple is reluctant to see both of them, because of confidentiality and bias issues. Many won’t even see sibling children.) ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221/27 "2015-09-07T16:13:46Z")
My atheist formerly alcoholic friend just could’t hack AA. Maybe he should have tried a different group. He had excellent medical insurance that paid for a month at a dryout camp that also provided medical care if needed (for DTs, say). He came out, stayed dry for five years or so and then, with care, tried a glass of wine. That worked (that is, he didn’t have any overwhelming desire to keep on drinking) and he has been drinking wine (or beer) with dinner ever since. He has kept this up for 25 years. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221/28 "2015-09-07T16:16:59Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > YMMV And that’s it, in four letters. Mileage \*does \*vary, and the AA model does \*not \*fit everyone. The religious tone/basis is only the beginning of why. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221/29 "2015-09-07T16:23:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That’s cute, but when it comes to actually following AA it falls apart. A friend of mine who attended meetings at several locations was told more than once that as long as a higher power is “greater” than the individual, _then the only condition is that it should also be loving and caring_. > The “Higher Power” referred to in The Big book is mentioned three times, and I don’t think a big sign in front of K-Mart meets these qualifications: > > -“Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.” > -“The alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental defense against the first drink. Except in a few cases, neither he nor any other human being can provide such a defense. His defense must come from a Higher Power.” > -“Follow the dictates of a Higher Power and you will presently live in a new and wonderful world, no matter what your present circumstances!” > > Doorknobs and K-Mart signs don’t exactly qualify, do they? At the very least, the “Higher Power” is spiritual in nature. Are you actually a member of AA? Do you at least have some experience with it beyond a friend who attended for awhile? It drives me a bit nuts how many people on this board speak so authoritatively about AA when they know virtually nothing about it. The language of the Big Book speaks to many people but it need not be accepted by all. Yes, there are references to a higher power. For many that’s God or Jesus or Allah. For many it’s nature or the fellowship or the Kmart sign. All you need to accept is that there is something greater than YOU, be it mountains, sunsets, the existence of baby pandas, whatever inspires a bit of awe in you. If your higher power isn’t a personal, loving God, the steps just take a bit of translating. I’ve gone to lots of different meetings, most of them in churches because churches have rooms to rent, and I’ve never heard anyone giving a flying fuck about anyone else’s higher power or difficulty with same. In other words, what Qadgop said. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221/30 "2015-09-07T16:30:39Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > It drives me a bit nuts how many people on this board speak so authoritatively about AA when they know virtually nothing about it. Well, that’s kinda the problem, Emiliana…\*\*\* no one\*\*\* knows much about it. The model actively resists study, evaluation and data collection, so what we’re left with is anecdotal, self-reported results based on a program developed by an amateur in the 1930s. A program that has managed to embed itself in popular, legal and therapeutic culture as **The** [Best | Only | Right] **Answer** , despite less evidence of its net effectiveness than prayer therapy. So do excuse those of us who do in fact have both inside and close outside experience with AA and good reason to question it. “If it works for _you_” - great. No further argument… with _you_. (The fact that I can’t say “it \*worked \*for you,” since the model is that it’s an incurable disease needing a lifetime of intervention to control… well, that’s part of the issue.) ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221/31 "2015-09-07T16:57:53Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Well, that’s kinda the problem, Emiliana…\*\*\* no one\*\*\* knows much about it. The model actively resists study, evaluation and data collection, so what we’re left with is anecdotal, self-reported results based on a program developed by an amateur in the 1930s. > > A program that has managed to embed itself in popular, legal and therapeutic culture as **The** [Best | Only | Right] **Answer** , despite less evidence of its net effectiveness than prayer therapy. > > So do excuse those of us who do in fact have both inside and close outside experience with AA and good reason to question it. > > “If it works for _you_” - great. No further argument… with _you_. (The fact that I can’t say “it \*worked \*for you,” since the model is that it’s an incurable disease needing a lifetime of intervention to control… well, that’s part of the issue.) AA doesn’t actually aspire to world domination. There are no AA clinics, detox programs, educational programs, retreats, or anything other than individual meetings run in accordance with the group conscience of its membership. Sure, there’s a few standard meeting formats, and they all follow the basic outline of the 12 steps, but they have very different personalities and styles. I suspect what bugs a lot of people is something that also bugs me. I don’t think courts should order people to go to AA meetings, nor do I think AA groups ought to sign off on court slips. I do know quite a few people who came to AA by court order and stuck around voluntarily, with decades of sobriety, but I still don’t like it. As for data, AA has no interest in presenting itself as THE way to achieve sobriety. There’s no way data could be collected without changing the very essence of the program–that’s what the anonymity is about. Programs trying to prove their results are also pretty resistant to taking in lost souls and lost causes. AA isn’t. Doesn’t matter how many times you’ve relapsed and come back. Hell, people show up drunk. Everyone tells them to keep coming. AA doesn’t define alcoholism. If someone asks if they are an alcoholic, the usual response is to come to a meeting and see if they identify with anything. If someone can stay dry and then take up moderate, social drinking, more power to them. We all wish we could. The people who need AA really can’t pick up a drink and maintain moderate drinking. We know too many people who thought they could, never came back, and died. If you need evidence and proof, AA won’t provide it. But it’s not like its receiving government funds–or private funding beyond a buck and a time from the members. Why do you care whether or not its the best way to deal with alcoholism? AA members don’t. They keep showing up because it works for them. Besides, meetings can be a blast. I’ve met so many great people at them. I find it a whole lot more useful than therapy has ever been and it sure is cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221/32 "2015-09-07T17:33:03Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Note that the OP is not the drinker. The OP is looking for ways to deal with a possibly problem-drinking companion. I didn’t think the OP was a drinker, did I say something to imply that he was? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221/33 "2015-09-07T17:36:15Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > But for which party? Therapists don’t tend to have a lot of tools to help a third party - in some ways, they’re barred from doing such things. Help for the OP in coping and finding a way to have a useful discussion with the partner, yes. But that still leaves the solution, if any is needed, to some other person or entity. > > (IME, a therapist who has seen one member of a couple is reluctant to see both of them, because of confidentiality and bias issues. Many won’t even see sibling children.) They have lots of tools to help a third party - they can talk you through what you can and can’t control. They can help you learn how to step back and what you need to do to stay healthy. They can point out behavior that is counterproductive. They can help you address emotions that people living with alcoholics have - anger, guilt. And they can do all of this only knowing your side of the story, because honestly, in your mind, only your perceptions matter - they can help you review those perceptions. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221/34 "2015-09-07T23:04:13Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Having been in AA for over 3 decades, I must say that practically speaking, there are LOT of us agnostics and atheists in AA with long-term sobriety and satisfying lives. We manage to find the ‘higher power’ that we need, and don’t get hassled for it to any significant degree. These days, individuals pushing any particular belief as the ‘right way’ or being critical of someone else’s tend to get the group’s disapproval. > > As for Al-Anon, the same seems to apply there. The group my wife started in our UU church is pretty secular, and voted to stop doing the “Lord’s Prayer” as it was seen as being off-putting to many potential and current members. > > Check out some groups, attend one that suits you. The fellowship with others is very, VERY helpful. > > If you can find such support outside AA/Al-Anon, go for it. It’s out there too, just harder to find, in my experience. > > The above represents my experience only. But I’ve been to a lot of meetings all over the US and Canada, for a long time. There are individual groups I’d avoid like the plague but to me they’re the exception and not the rule. What the good doctor said. Al-Anon’s World Service Office is encouraging groups to drop the Lord’s Prayer in favor of non-denominational/secular alternatives. I’ve also openly identified as atheist and no one’s ever given me a problem over it. But since groups are autonomous, different groups do things differently. I’ve been to meetings that were one step above a church service, and I never went back. I’ve also been to meetings that barely mentioned Higher Power, except when reading the Steps and Traditions. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221/35 "2015-09-07T23:18:15Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I didn’t think the OP was a drinker, did I say something to imply that he was? No, I understood you perfectly. > [@Dangerosa](#): > > They have lots of tools to help a third party - they can talk you through what you can and can’t control. They can help you learn how to step back and what you need to do to stay healthy. They can point out behavior that is counterproductive. They can help you address emotions that people living with alcoholics have - anger, guilt. And they can do all of this only knowing your side of the story, because honestly, in your mind, only your perceptions matter - they can help you review those perceptions. Of course, private therapy would be ideal, I’ve done it before, it was at the end of 2 years of therapy that I was open enough to jump into this relationship, which has lasted 23 years so far. The main trouble for me is the cost. I would at least like to try the (relatively cheap) group approach to see if I can get anything out of it. Most of the alternative organizations recommended so far are strictly replacements for AA, and don’t appear to have any analog to Al-Anon. Bright Eyes Forum appears to be online only, and I really feel the need for in-person interaction. **kopek** , I would like to try your suggestion - a local-only group would be fine - but I’m a little at a loss as to where to start. Among other considerations, I don’t want to lose my anonymity during the search for such a group. But I will see what I can find. Thanks for all the helpful responses so far. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221/36 "2015-09-07T23:31:32Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > No, I understood you perfectly. > > Of course, private therapy would be ideal, I’ve done it before, it was at the end of 2 years of therapy that I was open enough to jump into this relationship, which has lasted 23 years so far. The main trouble for me is the cost. I would at least like to try the (relatively cheap) group approach to see if I can get anything out of it. Call your local United Way. They can provide access to free or sliding scale therapists. In conjunction with Al-Anon that might be your best path. Al-Anon is strange. It can be useful, certainly many people have found it so. I’m not fond of it myself because I want to look at the woman with the alcoholic husband she’s sticking by and has been for ten years and say “pack up your bags and leave already!” And that isn’t permitted. So for weeks you go and listen to how he slapped her around again when drunk, but she now knows, through Al-anon, that it isn’t her fault and she can’t control his behavior :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221/37 "2015-09-07T23:31:34Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > A program that has managed to embed itself in popular, legal and therapeutic culture as **The** [Best | Only | Right] **Answer** , despite less evidence of its net effectiveness than prayer therapy. AA has done nothing to embed itself in culture, though it does have that reputation among some parts of society, especially the legal system. Judges like to sentence people to doing 90 meetings in 90 days and bullshit like that. Most AA members roll their eyes at this. That perception is due to misinformation by outsiders more than promotion by AA members, though I wouldn’t say it never happens. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221/38 "2015-09-08T00:43:10Z")
Please, I was not interested in the relative merits or flaws of AA or 12-step programs when I started this thread. I would be very grateful if that discussion could end now, or be taken to a separate thread. Take it as given that I might attend Al-Anon if I do not find the “higher power” burden too onerous. I would still like to find analogous alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221/39 "2015-09-08T02:16:10Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Please, I was not interested in the relative merits or flaws of AA or 12-step programs when I started this thread. I would be very grateful if that discussion could end now, or be taken to a separate thread. Take it as given that I might attend Al-Anon if I do not find the “higher power” burden too onerous. I would still like to find analogous alternatives. I can’t speak specifically to Al-Anon, but I have attended multiple 12-step meetings in San Francisco, and I can confirm that they barely mentioned the higher power concept, and certainly not in a religious context. I’ve always felt that the descriptions of 12-step on the SDMB were very different from what I experienced, probably because of the location. Just want to let you know that if you do decide to check out Al-Anon in San Francisco, it’s unlikely that you’ll be confronted by a heavy emphasis on God or religion. In the meantime, I do have one other suggestion, which is the book [Drinking: A Love Story](http://www.amazon.com/Drinking-Love-Story-Caroline-Knapp-ebook/dp/B000FC1HSC/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1441678502&sr=1-1&keywords=drinking+a+love+story). It was written by an alcoholic, and may give you some insight into what is going on with the person you’re living with. Years ago I recommended it to someone on this board in a similar situation who found it very helpful. I also think that the suggestion for therapy is a useful one. A therapist could help guide you through living with an alcoholic without needing to treat or know the alcoholic. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221/40 "2015-09-08T04:08:10Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > I’m going to recommend that you still try out a couple of Al-Anon groups in your area before you worry about their religious bent…different groups have different personalities, and while they will all mention the Higher Power, some will be infinitely more flexible about what that actually means. If you find the right group, for example maybe one at a UU church, you might find that the group itself can be your Higher Power, or something absurd, like the Force. > > Really, there’s an enormous amount of comfort to be found in just sitting around hearing people’s stories and how amazingly familiar they will be. Double ditto this. Don’t dismiss it out of hand before you try it. If you’re picturing alanon as something like going to church, it absolutely is not that. People just talk about how they’re coping with their lives. There’s no “cross-talk,” which means people don’t talk directly to each other during the meeting except to thank them for speaking. IOW, it’s not a discussion group or a therapy group. People listen wholeheartedly and don’t comment. They just listen. Groups are different. Try a few. Don’t reject the whole idea based on what you imagine it’s like. I resisted going, because I thought it would be too depressing. I thought I would see my future with my alcoholic boyfriend. But it was incredibly uplifting. You never have to speak. Except at the beginning they go around the room and you say your first name. I went for months three times a week and never said one word. I used to leave before the prayer at the end. Sometimes I got there late, too, so I didn’t have to say my name. It’s a place without judgment and awash in unconditional love. Seriously. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-al-anon/730221.md?page=3)