# Alternatives to the basic .223 Remington - Useful, or pointless? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 4, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-the-basic-223-remington-useful-or-pointless/783742 "2017-04-04T16:41:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-the-basic-223-remington-useful-or-pointless/783742/21 "2017-04-05T15:05:36Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Not an AR guy, at least not yet, but seems like you’re missing 7.62x39mm. Ammo is super easy to find, and it’s not an uncommon choice. It wouldn’t provide much over the .223 of course, and similar to 300BLK without the tacticool. Personally, I don’t buy that there is anything _inherently_ inaccurate about that platform. I don’t do much shooting with that round. I mean, I _do_ own an AKM-type rifle, but that’s mostly a locker-queen, and gets dusted off maybe once a year. I recall, though I’m not entirely certain, that AR-type lowers require a different magazine well to accomodate the 7.62x39 round. > [@](#): > > Either that or .22 LR if you really want to. That, I have - But I woundn’t trust much beyond 100 yards. > [@](#): > > In the similar vein of .50 Beowulf, there is also [.458 SOCOM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.458_SOCOM). Probably doesn’t meet your price point though. I don’t have problems with the rare sabre-toothed woodchuck, so no thank you. 😛 > [@](#): > > I know they sell 9mm lowers that take Glock magazines - I think you can still do pistol caliber on a regular lower though? You CAN do PCC on a standard lower, with the right magazines. Not what I’m looking for, though. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-the-basic-223-remington-useful-or-pointless/783742/22 "2017-04-05T15:14:46Z")
> [@harmonicamoon](#): > > Back when I was a deer hunter (40 years ago), my rifle was a single shot .223 with a scope. I liked it because the round ended up exactly where the cross hairs where. So, a shot through the heart was easy to perform. > > I chose a single shot to make it a fair fight, and to make sure of my target before I fired. But, I always had an extra round in my mouth, in case Murphy showed up. > > Like I said, this was 40 years ago. And ammunition may have changed. If I’m going to take a deer, I have an FR-8, an M38 Swedish Mauser (new to me - lovely round though - very flat-shooting!), an M48 Yugo Mauser, and a shotgun - Depending on my mood, and where I’m hunting (sight-distance, brush, what’s beyond the hunting area). Honestly though, smaller calibers are where I live. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-the-basic-223-remington-useful-or-pointless/783742/23 "2017-04-05T15:22:44Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Firing from a bipod with a 4x scope doesn’t give you the best idea of how your rifle is performing. Fire your .223 upper from a proper sandbagged rest and allow the barrel to cool completely between strings before you write off the .223 as not your most precise round. Any other round fired with that combo would likely seem pretty lackluster, as well. > I agree with **Stranger** on the majority of his points. I’d like to know what you are including under the heading “varminting” though. For anything smaller than a coyote, the 6/7mm rounds are overkill. A groundhog doesn’t require a round in the .270 class for a humane kill. Homework. Heh. And better glass. Well, I asked for advice… 😛 Better than wasting money on the wrong build. And yeah, I’m not going to be popping woodchucks with 6.5x55 - That’s just crazy talk. Wood chucks at the 150-250 yard range are my most common varmint. As you noted above, I’ve wasted more than a few .223 bullets. Also: I’m not a huge AR-guy; it’s just what I have that I know I can build. If someone offered me, say, a CZ-527 in a useful caliber for cheap, I’d jump on it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2017, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-the-basic-223-remington-useful-or-pointless/783742/24 "2017-04-05T16:34:17Z")
I have a nice R-66 that sounds like it could get me out of debt. I had no idea. Poking **Tranq** with a stick usually gets me good info. Thanks to **Tanq** and all of you. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2017, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-the-basic-223-remington-useful-or-pointless/783742/25 "2017-04-05T17:15:04Z")
Remember, prices are always local. Unless you’re on an auction site. My $700 might be your $350. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-the-basic-223-remington-useful-or-pointless/783742/26 "2017-04-05T20:34:23Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > I don’t do much shooting with that round. I mean, I _do_ own an AKM-type rifle, but that’s mostly a locker-queen, and gets dusted off maybe once a year. I recall, though I’m not entirely certain, that AR-type lowers require a different magazine well to accomodate the 7.62x39 round. The lower is the same, you would have to buy different magazines. Which isn’t necessarily a flaw - it’s safer than accidentally using .300 Blackout in a 5.56 gun as they have the same magazines. > [@Tranquilis](#): > > Also: I’m not a huge AR-guy; it’s just what I have that I know I can build. If someone offered me, say, a CZ-527 in a useful caliber for cheap, I’d jump on it. 😉 Very good choice. Although I’m not sure that the calibers it comes in are different enough for you? .222 Remington - yawn, mostly for places with “military caliber” bans that don’t let them do .223, hard to find otherwise x39, .204, Grendel - you mentioned and (mostly?) nixed That leaves the Hornet calibers, .22 and .17 conceptually nifty (though the latter is pretty new to me). Low recoil, good accuracy. Maybe the more unique choice in this along with .204, though I’m not sure what it offers above .223 ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2017, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-the-basic-223-remington-useful-or-pointless/783742/27 "2017-04-05T21:07:24Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Very good choice. Although I’m not sure that the calibers it comes in are different enough for you? > .222 Remington - yawn, mostly for places with “military caliber” bans that don’t let them do .223, hard to find otherwise > x39, .204, Grendel - you mentioned and (mostly?) nixed > That leaves the Hornet calibers, .22 and .17 conceptually nifty (though the latter is pretty new to me). Low recoil, good accuracy. Maybe the more unique choice in this along with .204, though I’m not sure what it offers above .223 Don’t know anything about the .17. .204 Ruger, the big thing it offers is wicked-high velocities. Does anyone know about wind drift and sensitivity to say, hitting some grass, in the .204? The bullet weights are down in .22 rimfire weights. Though to be honest, if someone offered me _ANY_ CZ rifle at a bargain price, I don’t think I’d stop to tie my shoes, much less check caliber. 😉 You may’ve noted I have a lot of bolt-guns, and CZ makes some _smooooth_ bolt action rifles. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-the-basic-223-remington-useful-or-pointless/783742/28 "2017-04-05T21:37:38Z")
A CZ 455 and one of their pistols (P-01 Omega if I can, but that’s as common as a unicorn) are my next potential purchases. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-the-basic-223-remington-useful-or-pointless/783742/29 "2017-04-05T22:41:43Z")
.17 center fires are barrel burners IME and require a lot of meticulous cleaning. OTOH, within their effective range they shoot laser flat and are rodents’ grim fucking reaper. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-the-basic-223-remington-useful-or-pointless/783742/30 "2017-04-05T22:58:24Z")
Hmmm. I find your ideas intriguing, and wish to subscribe to your newsletter… That certainly meets “odd” whilst also meeting my basic shooting requirements. How is it in wind drift, and incidental obstruction (grass)? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-the-basic-223-remington-useful-or-pointless/783742/31 "2017-04-06T01:35:54Z")
Within the range that you have said you typically shoot, speed is such that wind doesn’t have much chance to move shit around. My .17 Remington did not suffer incidental obstruction well at all. That was in the 80’s. Maybe bullets are better now. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-the-basic-223-remington-useful-or-pointless/783742/32 "2017-04-06T13:39:14Z")
Well then. I think that settles it - First, some homework to do on my current upper, and maybe some modifications or improvements there. Then, start sourcing parts for .17 - But no rush. If I can make some improvements to my current upper, that should be done first. Thanks, folks. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alternatives-to-the-basic-223-remington-useful-or-pointless/783742.md?page=1)