# "Always a woman" - most passive-aggressive swipe against women ever or what? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 18, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/always-a-woman-most-passive-aggressive-swipe-against-women-ever-or-what/674200 "2013-11-18T19:51:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/always-a-woman-most-passive-aggressive-swipe-against-women-ever-or-what/674200/21 "2013-11-20T18:45:09Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I’ve got a bunch of degrees, but I’m sure that if the evidence was against me, _I_’d be convicted. > > Maybe it only works for women. Sexist. Perhaps Joel was alluding to the medieval doctrine of “benefit of clergy.” ---
**Author:** ![brujaja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@brujaja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brujaja)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/always-a-woman-most-passive-aggressive-swipe-against-women-ever-or-what/674200/22 "2013-11-23T03:07:24Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Of course it’s sexist. It was also the 1970s. We were (and hopefully still are) evolving. Aw, that was beautiful, man. Well said. Rational, even-keeled and succinct. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/always-a-woman-most-passive-aggressive-swipe-against-women-ever-or-what/674200/23 "2013-11-23T03:29:46Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Interesting. Sounds rather sexist - I mean the executives. What do you call a hard-nosed, cutthroat businessman? Prudent! Well, it depends. If the hard-nosed, cutthroat businessman is on your side, you call him prudent. If he’s on the other side, you call him a bastard, or a son of a bitch, or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/always-a-woman-most-passive-aggressive-swipe-against-women-ever-or-what/674200/24 "2013-11-23T11:35:05Z")
I’d like to hear the OP’s thoughts on [Laura](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALp9rfnPJ8c)and [Stiletto](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niVLasaDPAQ). ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/always-a-woman-most-passive-aggressive-swipe-against-women-ever-or-what/674200/25 "2013-11-23T15:34:50Z")
Billy Joel was singing about a specific woman. I don’t see anything in the lyrics that even hints that’s the way he thinks about all women. And it was the 1970’s. Applying current mores to historical times is called “presentism.” And it’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/always-a-woman-most-passive-aggressive-swipe-against-women-ever-or-what/674200/26 "2013-11-23T17:23:51Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Actually, the line that bothers me about “always a woman” is > > I’ve got a bunch of degrees, but I’m sure that if the evidence was against me, _I_’d be convicted. > > Maybe it only works for women. Sexist. I think he was being metaphorical. And more importantly, he needed another word to rhyme with “me.” ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/always-a-woman-most-passive-aggressive-swipe-against-women-ever-or-what/674200/27 "2013-11-25T20:54:14Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Many of Dylan’s songs about former loves ARE negative and critical, but that doesn’t necessarily make them sexist. This is a point that needs to be made. Nasty people of both sexes deserve to be put down, and can be, depending on how it’s done. It always torqued me when the two songs from the Stones’ album _Aftermath_, “Stupid Girl” and “Under My Thumb,” were mentioned in the same breath as being sexist. The girl in “Stupid Girl” really _is_ stupid, and the song enumerates the specific reasons why she is. It’s not sexist to do this. On the other hand, there’s no getting around the sexism of “Under My Thumb” (“her eyes are just kept to herself/I can still look at someone else,” etc.). Unfortunately, “Under My Thumb” is also a great song musically…so the trick is to just not pay much attention to the lyrics when it plays! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/always-a-woman-most-passive-aggressive-swipe-against-women-ever-or-what/674200/28 "2013-11-25T21:39:59Z")
Dr. Dre raps about “Bitches ain’t shit!” and the OP has a problem with Billy Joel in the 80’s. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/always-a-woman-most-passive-aggressive-swipe-against-women-ever-or-what/674200/29 "2013-11-26T18:50:40Z")
> [@DChord568](#): > > Unfortunately, “Under My Thumb” is also a great song musically…so the trick is to just not pay much attention to the lyrics when it plays! Works for “Brown Sugar” too. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/always-a-woman-most-passive-aggressive-swipe-against-women-ever-or-what/674200/30 "2013-11-26T19:14:49Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Works for “Brown Sugar” too. Brown Sugar is on a whole other level of bad taste. Its a good thing I couldn’t make out what was being said until I was well into adulthood. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2013, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/always-a-woman-most-passive-aggressive-swipe-against-women-ever-or-what/674200/31 "2013-11-30T10:05:18Z")
Billy Joel sings a lot of angsty songs. He should hook up with Helen Reddy. They’d be perfect soul-mates. ---
**Author:** ![ducati](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/always-a-woman-most-passive-aggressive-swipe-against-women-ever-or-what/674200/32 "2013-12-03T22:05:48Z")
> [@astro](#): > > [I feel the same way about this song.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UX2afsTqFI) She doesn’t know me. It objectifies men. One of my all-time favorites! And it’s just as true today as it was 30 years ago! 😃 [Boys are Stupid!](http://www.panicposters.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/f63dc5ec28f3175f8a7f615bd217eb71/P/P/PP466.jpg) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/always-a-woman-most-passive-aggressive-swipe-against-women-ever-or-what/674200.md?page=1)