# Alyssa Milano calls for "sex strike" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 12, 2019, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alyssa-milano-calls-for-sex-strike/833858 "2019-05-12T17:32:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alyssa-milano-calls-for-sex-strike/833858/141 "2019-05-16T09:35:40Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > What exactly does ‘Make America great Again’ mean? It seems to look to, say, the 1950s as a golden era we should aspire to. Could it be that some people who used to work in some devastated industries and are now unemployed or working shitty poorly paid jobsn, had better working conditions and more job stability, wish to return to their former situation? Could they feel that the USA is in decline and be afraid of the future for their children? Well, of course not. When they vote, their only motivation is “will I be able to opress Black people?” because that’s what they think about all day long. And this is totally not a caricature. It’s of course impossible that someone would vote for Trump because he promised to rapatriate jobs in the USA. It’s solely because he hopes that he will put sluts back at their place (and of course, no woman voted for Trump, well maybe except self-hating women who think all other women are sluts). I begin to realize that this kind of statements aren’t even exaggeration for effect. Many of you really believe that the only motivation conservative types have is their hate for gays, women and black people. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alyssa-milano-calls-for-sex-strike/833858/142 "2019-05-16T09:55:41Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Could it be that some people who used to work in some devastated industries and are now unemployed or working shitty poorly paid jobsn, had better working conditions and more job stability, wish to return to their former situation? Could they feel that the USA is in decline and be afraid of the future for their children? Believe it or not, this explanation has been explored as a potential explanation for Trump voters. It’s been explored quite extensively! People tried their best to make the data stretch to fit this explanation. And [they just couldn’t make it fit](https://theintercept.com/2018/09/18/2016-election-race-class-trump/). > [@](#): > > I begin to realize that this kind of statements aren’t even exaggeration for effect. Many of you really believe that the only motivation conservative types have is their hate for gays, women and black people. Leaving aside the “black people” bit (which is less “outright hostility” and more “nasty subconscious and cultural biases”)… When looking at the pro-life movement, many of their actions make absolutely no fucking sense if what they want is to prevent abortions. [Those actions make perfect sense if their goal is to oppress women and control women’s health](https://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/10/how-i-lost-faith-in-the-pro-life-movement.html). Looking at the anti-LGBT movement, there’s not even a fig leaf. Their actions make _no sense_ if they are not motivated by anti-gay animus, and most of the time, they don’t even try to fucking hide it, unless they’re worried their statement is going to end up quoted back to them in court. Maybe there are a handful of incredibly stupid people who are legitimately worried that their rights to hold their faith is under threat, but by and large, the people actually pushing anti-gay legislation know full well what this is about. And there’s no shortage of people willing to say the quiet part out loud. We’ve tried giving them the benefit of the doubt. It turns out that was a mistake. They really are as cartoonishly fucking evil as they look. Again, this may be hard to believe if you didn’t grow up in the US, but this is the reality. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alyssa-milano-calls-for-sex-strike/833858/143 "2019-05-16T09:58:56Z")
By the by, on the subject of Lysistrasa, from what I’ve seen on the left, basically everyone agrees this is a bad idea that was poorly-thought-out and even the twitter celeb who was pushing it has moved away from it. The discussion has been amplified for some reason (can’t imagine why something that makes the left look stupid would be given ample airtime :rolleyes: ) but the conversation around it is mostly “this is a stupid idea and an own goal, stop it”. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alyssa-milano-calls-for-sex-strike/833858/144 "2019-05-16T10:01:12Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > If it’s presented as a typical behavior, I want it to actually be a typical behavior. “Conservatives just hate women and think they’re all sluts” isn’t an objective statement. It’s propaganda. Bad propaganda. It’s not quite the statement I made either. And, sadly, it \*\*is \*\*a typical behavior which is evidenced by the long, long list of bills Republicans have put forward - and occasionally passed - with the intent to obstruct access to abortion, contraception and women’s health services, often involving instigating intentional emotional trauma. Remember that whole thing about intravaginal ultrasounds? Do you understand what the purpose of that was? I have many other examples - how many will it take? > [@](#): > > Many of them are opposed to contraception too. Why would they do that? Perhaps you should be asking why they’re opposed to contraception, which drastically reduces the amount of unwanted pregnancies and thus abortions. Unless, of course, what they really want is to punish women for having sex. Then it all makes sense. > [@](#): > > They’re opposed to abortion, and see it as, morally, equivalent to murder. Why would they want to facilitate abortion? It’s not about “facilitating abortion”. It’s about a concerted campaign to deceive pregnant women, provide them with - what was the term you used? - **bad propaganda** about the medical elements of abortion, and to emotionally traumatize them as much as possible. This is another perfect example of malignant behaviors resulting in active harm, and here you are blithely handwaving it away. I mean, sure, if you ignore all the examples that support my position, my position appears unsupported. Funny about that. > [@](#): > > So, unless someone agrees with you about everything wrt what is best for society, they hate children and think women are sluts? No, it’s when people do things that actively harm the population of poor single mothers and their children who are also most significantly affected by restricted access to abortion and affordable contraception, I have to question whether they really care about those women and children. I only think they think those women are sluts when they say it out loud. Which, in various ways, they do more often than you seem to want to admit. > [@](#): > > And this, according to you, ins’t a caricature? You actually think that 50% or so of your fellow citizens just enjoy seeing people suffer? That when they go to vote, they wonder “which candidate will make people suffer more?” I note that you are ignoring my caveat and hyperbolically rephrasing what I said, so perhaps before you accuse me yet again of caricaturing other people’s positions you’ll stop doing the same to mine. But whether they consciously vote with the intention of hurting other people - [and some of them do](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/8/18173678/trump-shutdown-voter-florida)- the end result is the same. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alyssa-milano-calls-for-sex-strike/833858/145 "2019-05-16T10:51:39Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I note that you are ignoring my caveat and hyperbolically rephrasing what I said, so perhaps before you accuse me yet again of caricaturing other people’s positions you’ll stop doing the same to mine. > > But whether they consciously vote with the intention of hurting other people - [and some of them do](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/8/18173678/trump-shutdown-voter-florida)- the end result is the same. It’s worth noting that people’s policy preferences have become more and more completely out of whack with what actually gets passed in recent years. [https://twitter.com/ParkerMolloy/status/1128504574975860736](https://twitter.com/ParkerMolloy/status/1128504574975860736) > [@](#): > > It’s really amazing how different public opinion is vs. what politicians actually try to advance. > > Abortion, gun safety, LGBTQ issues, health care, etc., even as public opinion remains extremely clear on all of these issues, the policy doesn’t come close to matching. > > 92% of Americans support requiring background checks on _all_ gun sales. 92! > > But even that tiny bit of progress can’t even get an up or down vote in Congress. [https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx](https://t.co/k5A1uPtuOX) > > Majorities in _every state_ support the Equality Act, which would ban discrimination on the basis of gender or sexual orientation. > > Out of 240 co-sponsors, just 3 are Republicans. It’ll likely pass the House, but never get a Senate vote. That’s nuts! [https://www.prri.org/research/americans-support-protections-lgbt-people/](https://t.co/fYpgQepncU) > > We’re being governed by elected officials who are increasingly out of touch with what people actually want. An extremely vocal conservative minority of the country is dictating policy. > > Apathy and voter suppression allow this to happen. > > It shouldn’t be too much to ask that the people we elect to represent us in government actually carry out the will of their constituents. > > Part of why they’re able to get away with this is that US political media is just god-awful. > > If you turn on Meet the Press and they’re discussing universal background checks, you’ll come away feeling like there are 2 sides to the issue supported by a roughly equal percentage of the population. That’s a false reality, it’s an utter fiction. > > Anyway, seeing what’s happening in Alabama and Georgia right now with abortion, and seeing the ongoing hard right shift of the judiciary… we are headed to a very bad place politically. The slice of the population calling the shots keeps getting smaller yet increasingly powerful (Parker Molloy, for those wondering, is an editor at Media Matters. Click through and you’ll see all manner of charts and graphs detailing exactly how clear this is.) Like, even in Alabama and Georgia, two states that recently passed these extreme anti-abortion laws, _not even 1 in 4 people want to see a complete ban on Abortion_. > **[pro-choice-stats](https://www.dataforprogress.org/prochoicestats)** ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alyssa-milano-calls-for-sex-strike/833858/146 "2019-05-16T11:02:55Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > We’ve tried giving them the benefit of the doubt. It turns out that was a mistake. They really are as cartoonishly fucking evil as they look. Again, this may be hard to believe if you didn’t grow up in the US, but this is the reality. Slight caveat: it’s entirely possible (likely, even) that the average republican voter is stupid, rather than evil. There’s a reason the Koch brothers pay substantial amounts of money for pieces talking about how far-right figures are “silenced”; why Dave Rubin tries to guide every conversation towards the reaction to right-wing speakers on campus (as though it were the most important issue, or indeed as though it mattered at all). Talking about policy is a loser for republicans, so they talk about _literally anything else_. Or they lie, that works too - see also: [the main republican policy message on Obamacare for about a decade](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/03/the-right-wing-media-helped-obamacare-in-spite-of-itself/520851/). So the average republican voter may not be malicious. They may instead by incredibly stupid. See also: [this interview with Georgia State Senator Jen Jordan](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/05/georgia-abortion-law-jen-jordan-brian-kemp.html): **Do you think a majority of legislators who supported HB 481 realized that they were subjecting women who self-terminate to murder charges and all these grave consequences?** No. This has been a problem across the board up at the General Assembly. Everybody thinks that the majority of people up there are lawyers, and that’s not true. We don’t even have enough lawyers to fill the Judiciary Committee in the Senate. That’s problematic. To really understand HB 481, you needed to look at the entire statutory regime. It references back to different statutes. It’s almost like a puzzle you have to put together. If you’re not a lawyer, you don’t know how to do that. If you don’t know how to do it, you rely on the team mentality. “The Republican leadership and the governor say that this is what we have to do as Republicans and this is going to save lives.” There’s no independent research. Republican legislators rely on folks telling them this is great, there’s no problem, we need to vote for it. But if you do a deep dive and see what the implications are, I can’t see how any rational person would think that this is a good idea. \*\*The weird consequences certainly go beyond punishing women. \*\* It’s fantastical. What about women pregnant in prison? Now you’ve got a baby that hasn’t been given due process and is in prison? It sounds ridiculous because it’s ridiculous. If you see a pregnant woman eating sushi, do you call the Division of Family and Children Services and make a complaint? It’s that kind of stuff. If you’re pregnant, you’re driving in the HOV lane, and an officer pulls you over, do you say, “Don’t worry, officer—me and my zygote, we’re good.” The Office of Legislative Counsel told us that if an undocumented immigrant in the state is pregnant, that fetus is considered a Georgia resident, a citizen, and a person entitled to all the aid and health care a Georgia resident is entitled to. But the mother herself couldn’t get any benefits. This law is so irrational. It just doesn’t make sense because it’s so absurd. When I first read it, it was like, Come on. No way. This isn’t happening. There are so many problems with this. But now it’s the law, so we need to tell people and educate women in terms of what could happen. These people are badly misinformed. They’re manipulated. Some of them are exactly as evil and malicious as their handlers. How many? Ultimately, I don’t give two shits, because _the end result remains the same_ - they vote for politicians who implement horribly unpopular policies that are bad for them personally and for the nation as a whole - hence the [“leopards eating people’s faces party” memes](https://www.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/). They need to stop. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alyssa-milano-calls-for-sex-strike/833858/147 "2019-05-16T11:14:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If Alyssa Milano was an elected official (like, say, the Governor of Georgia) and had any legal power to enforce her suggestions, then, yes, this would be a problem. But as long as she has no power to compel anyone else, then all she’s doing is exercising free speech. > > So now that we’ve absolved Alyssa Milano of doing anything wrong, do you plan on doing anything about the wrong being done Brian Kemp and the Georgia legislature? I’m not a fan of the “free speech gambit”: just because it is legal to say something doesn’t mean that the opinion expressed is correct. In fact if it is odious enough one could even say one “should not” express this opinion without impinging on the other’s free speech, excepting the marginal chilling effect when the person saying that a certain type of speech is wrong has governmental power to compel someone else to not say it. (I myself wouldn’t put it that strongly that her opinion ought not to be said, but I do think it’s a silly statement for all the other reasons pointed out in the thread.) ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alyssa-milano-calls-for-sex-strike/833858/148 "2019-05-16T11:41:34Z")
If political effectiveness is the goal, a converse strategy might be more effective. If women decided to seek out congressmen those who vote against the bill, and have sex with them it is ethically and even philosophically equivalent (although perhaps not legally) but likely to change more votes. Tris * * * Isn’t it odd that the advice of people who say what they are paid to say is important to so many of us who claim to support “free” speech. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alyssa-milano-calls-for-sex-strike/833858/149 "2019-05-16T14:37:45Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > Jeana Tomasino Keough, before she was a OG Real Housewife, was the Playboy Playmate of the Month for the November 1980 issue, appeared in a few movies, and was featured in a few ZZ Top videos. I’m sure the team members and Mr. Met were credible potential MAD threats. That’s not the point. Do you really think that every man is willing to have sex with every woman who he thinks looks good? That (even aside from differences in who’s sexually desirable to the individual) it doesn’t matter to any man whether he’s in a supposedly monogamous partnership, whether the woman is, whether she’s trustworthy, even whether her only motive is blatantly revenge? Yes, I’m sure there are men who don’t care. But there are a lot of men who do. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alyssa-milano-calls-for-sex-strike/833858/150 "2019-05-16T14:59:06Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I suppose one might think so if one didn’t understand what Planned Parenthood actually do. I mean, if Planned Parenthood actively promoted everyone getting an abortion and blocked any attempt anywhere to even make abortions marginally safer and only paid minor lip service to the whole “family planning” thing, then a comparison to the NRA might be more appropriate. > > But in opposing it, they are taking action that will result in vastly larger numbers of unwanted pregnancies and vastly larger numbers of abortions, many of which will be unsafe. But as I said, it’s certainly the best course of action if what you want is for women to suffer while you get to feel smug and self-righteous. Planned Parenthood does at least half of all the abortions in the US. They provide a minuscule fraction of the birth control used in the US. If they closed down tomorrow there would still be plenty of places to buy condoms, the pill, or IUDs. If abortion is outlawed people will switch to other forms of birth control and some more people will carry their babies to term. There will not be vastly larger numbers of abortions, there will be vastly fewer. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alyssa-milano-calls-for-sex-strike/833858/151 "2019-05-16T15:40:29Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Planned Parenthood does at least half of all the abortions in the US. They provide a minuscule fraction of the birth control used in the US. If they closed down tomorrow there would still be plenty of places to buy condoms, the pill, or IUDs. The Guttmacher Institute tried to estimate this, and came up with [upwards of a hundred thousand more abortions if Planned Parenthood went away](https://www.guttmacher.org/infographic/2017/unintended-pregnancies-and-abortions-averted-planned-parenthood-2015). A large part of the value in Planned Parenthood is that it is a non-profit. Sure, you can _buy_ birth control, and you can _pay_ for pap smears and pregnancy tests… if you can afford it. But the reality is, in many places, [there simply is no replacement for Planned Parenthood](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/29/planned-parenthood-trump-rules-1303964). The Missouri Family Health Council, which has been serving as the sole administer of Title X dollars in the state, says it’s waiting to learn its funding award for the new grant cycle set to begin April 1 and to see whether the courts block the new rules before deciding if it will stay in the family planning program. It currently distributes money to Planned Parenthood clinics that serve about 34 percent of the state’s Title X patients, meaning either entity’s exit could dramatically affect care in a state where family planning clinics can have a wait list of four to six weeks for new patients, according to Michelle Trupiano, the council’s executive director. “When we say the safety net is already stretched to the brim, that is what we mean,” Trupiano said. She added: “When you take out a large provider from that safety network, the entire net is going to break.” In Arizona, the nonprofit Arizona Family Health Partnership receives most of the state’s Title X money and distributes it to several different providers. Though Planned Parenthood only runs 17 percent of the Title X-funded clinics, it served 53 percent of the program’s patients in 2015, according to the pro-abortion rights Guttmacher Institute. Take that support away, and the result will be a whole lot of people who simply _do not get those services_. And so, you’ll end up with more unwanted pregnancies, and more abortions. Now granted, this doesn’t count the number of abortions that would be prevented if Planned Parenthood was no longer around to perform abortions, _but…_ There’s a reason for that. And that reason is: > [@](#): > > If abortion is outlawed people will switch to other forms of birth control and some more people will carry their babies to term. There will not be vastly larger numbers of abortions, there will be vastly fewer. …You’ve got this _exactly backwards_. > **[2011facts-iaw.pdf](https://youthsextion.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/2011facts-iaw.pdf)** > > 119.66 KB • Legal restrictions on abortion do not affect its incidence. For example, the abortion rate is 29 in Africa, where abortion is illegal in many circumstances in most countries, and it is 28 in Europe, where abortion is generally permitted on broad grounds. The lowest rates in the world are in Western and Northern Europe, where abortion is accessible with few restrictions. • Where abortion is legal and permitted on broad grounds, it is generally safe, and where it is illegal in many circumstances, it is often unsafe. For example, in South Africa, the incidence of infection resulting from abortion decreased by 52% after the abortion law was liberalized in 1996. There’s little to no indication that TRAP laws have done much of anything to lower the abortion rate - as opposed to expanded sex ed and easier access to birth control, which have absolutely done a whole lot to lower the abortion rate, by lowering the rate of unwanted pregnancies. This may be counterintuitive, but there’s good evidence that PP’s non-abortion services are irreplaceable, and little to no evidence that PP’s abortion services are similarly irreplaceable. But… the people against Planned Parenthood? They, by and large, just straight-up _do not like birth control_. Or sex education. Or, indeed, any of the other things you can do to reduce abortions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/alyssa-milano-calls-for-sex-strike/833858.md?page=7)