# Am Amurikans dumbererer **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [February 20, 2009, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715 "2009-02-20T14:33:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715/61 "2009-02-22T06:51:45Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Well, I hate to say it, because it’s so obvious, but in Quebec most people speak French (and a surprising number speak no English at all), and just about all signs are in French. And that’s about as near the U.S. as you can get. It’s certainly not close if you live in L.A. And now let’s talk about our border down here. I would like to learn Spanish, and there must be innumerable excellent reasons for doing so. Mexico has a proud history and remarkable culture (as all countries do, but I think those of Latin America particularly so). But Tijuana is not much of an enticement to learn it. I’ve traveled across our northern border at Surrey BC/Bellingham WA, and I’ve traveled over our southern border countless times. If you haven’t done that, you can’t claim to know how different it is possible for border crossings to be. One, you don’t even notice unless you catch the sign marking it (I was on a train). The other is overwhelming. The poverty and gritty desolation, the TJ neighborhoods with streets that run up hillsides and end in cliff-like, rocky outcropping on the other side (that section of the border runs over some of the most rugged terrain you’ll see anywhere), the piles of burning tires, and four year old children with dirty, bare feet begging you to buy their Chiclets, or in one case, simply standing forth with a cup and demanding, “MONEY!”–all that hits you like a figurative sandbag on the back of your head. This isn’t to say that some American interests don’t share some responsibility for the conditions down there. But it is a fact that driving from San Diego to Tijuana is in no way like driving from Hamburg to Groningen, or even Detroit to Windsor. Nay more, Tijuana has traditionally been the magnet drawing Americans at their least sophisticated, for example underage college students seeking to get plastered, and who scarcely know or appreciate good liquor at all. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Gleena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b3f665/32.png) [@Gleena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gleena)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715/62 "2009-02-22T07:19:15Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > I was going to ask about Australia myself. How does that country stack up in terms of the things we’ve been discussing here? How many can speak another language well, or read/listen to news originating from other countries? IME, it depends on how recently your family imigrated OR how dependent you are on a community of your peers.There are Greek immigrant families, just to pick one, with kids that are now fourth generation and in my son’s class as school, fluent in Greek and English. Why? Community values, church participation, Greek social clubs, etc. They go to Greek school once a week to learn, and so forth.Italians, Chinese, all the same way. Again, IME, it doesn’t compare to the US as we have a larger variety of nationalities of recent immigrations. Average Australians with families who came over in a non-voluntary fashion 200 years ago? Most of them I know just speak English, but, like in the US, are likely to have had a few years of another language in HS, the same as their parents generation. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715/63 "2009-02-22T08:27:51Z")
> [@MichaelJohnBertrand](#): > > “OMG! An American is learning OUR language! This is like being there when the first fish flopped onto land and took a gasping breath! We must nuture him!” 😛 Um. What **Clothahump** describes is very much like what I encountered when I first came to Norway. It wasn’t so much that I was American, mind you, but that I’m an English speaker. Since everyone in Scandinavia has to have many years of English in school, many English speakers, unfortunately, either don’t try very hard or don’t really try at all to learn the local language. (BAD idea, by the way.) When they encountered one who was really working hard at it, they were willing to do a lot to help me out. The problem, of course, was how often “helping me out” turned out to mean “trying to speak with me in English” :smack: But they meant well. I still encounter this in Denmark. The native English speaker who is trying to speak to the Danes in Norwegian and understand their answers in Danish? For her, we will slow down, enunciate, and keep things simple. Her Norwegian husband over there? He’s on his own. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Potman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7993a0/32.png) [@Potman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Potman)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715/64 "2009-02-22T08:51:52Z")
Really, the degree of ignorance should hardly be measured by the number of languages one can speak. After all, learning another language takes months, sometimes years of study. More to the point, are we aware of what is happening in the world around us - general knowledge of other countries and current affairs of the world. Pick up the newspaper. Turn on the world news (not Fox News). Look out your window at Russia. ---
**Author:** ![GreedySmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a698b9/32.png) [@GreedySmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreedySmurf)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715/65 "2009-02-22T11:34:06Z")
WRT Australia, I thought Cecil’s statement about distance was bit odd as well. I don’t in any way claim any sort of greater intelligence, but I would definitely say (and yes this is purely from a personal observance) an average Australian’s awareness and knowledge of the going’s on in the wider world is greater than the average American’s. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715/66 "2009-02-22T20:40:22Z")
Americans dumb? 56% of this French TV audience thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth!!! (graph at about 1:00) [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmLwnSXNpFU](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmLwnSXNpFU) > [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Why do Europeans think they’re smarter than Americans? Because they’ve ALWAYS looked down on us. At least that’s what Andrei Markovits argued in [Uncouth Nation](http://www.amazon.com/Uncouth-Nation-Europe-Dislikes-America/dp/0691122873). The European elite has a long history of looking down their noses at America. Lately, as the nations of Europe continue to unify into a common European community, it’s become fashionable and even beneficial for leaders to show how “not American” they are. The book gives many examples of the “damned if we do, damned if we don’t” treatment America gets from Europe. > > \ > > The United States itself began as and still represents a rejection of Europe, and that irritates members of certain circles. And by mere colonials and peasants, too. > [@](#): > > Frankly, I’m not sure why Cecil felt the need to pander to the prevailing stereotypical view of Americans as “greedy, smug, and self-centered.” It doesn’t matter how generous, friendly, or aware we are or become, Europe will find something bad to say about us. My sentiments exactly. > [@MichaelJohnBertrand](#): > > And some of it is willing ignorance, sad to say There is a very strong anti-intellectual bias in some of the main strata of right-wing American thought. The right wing tends to not like teachers, schools, college, education, or learning, as a rule. The feeling seems to be “All those things tend to make people less right wing, and therefore, ipso facto, they’re bad.” You have GOT to be fucking kidding. You REALLY believe that??? This statement reveals no one’s willing ignorance but your own. I can’t remember when I’ve been so utterly dumbfounded by a statement on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715/67 "2009-02-22T20:46:54Z")
> [@](#): > > You have GOT to be fucking kidding. You REALLY believe that??? This statement reveals no one’s willing ignorance but your own. I can’t remember when I’ve been so utterly dumbfounded by a statement on this board. There is some truth to what he said. You will find conservatives deriding things like the “liberal media” and “elitist intellectuals” and “left-wing college professors” and “over-privileged college students” and “feminazi writers” and “radical artists” and all the other stereotypes that “attack American values”. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715/68 "2009-02-22T20:57:24Z")
> [@Potman](#): > > At the risk of taking the conversation off the topic of food and back on, well, topic, I’m quite sure if you’re using the size of the country as an excuse for not giving a damn, then I’m pretty sure Australia has you beaten hands down. At least in America, if you desire you can actually drive to a few other countries. Not so much in Australia. Can’t get anywhere by bus. Yet we seem to be at least a little less ignorant to the rest of the world. Well, only two countries actually. No offense intended to either Canadians or Mexicans, but one of these countries looks very much like ours, except for one province. Also the money’s different–there’s a picture of a queen on the coins by gosh! The other country that borders us, Mexico, has the drawback that the border towns tend to cater to American day-trippers’ and weekenders’ lowest of low-browed urges. You don’t go to those places to soak up the culture and heritage of Mexico. A TJ pub crawl or pilgrimage to Hussongs in Ensenada can in no way be compared to visiting Mexico City or touring the pyramids in Yucatan. At that point, we’re talking about places that’s a thousand or more miles away and requires a half a day of airports and airplanes to reach. Yet I agree we are terribly insular, and the vast majority have little input from any foreign individuals or media. I wish people weren’t like that here, but they are. By contrast, I’m sometimes surprised at the way American news stories that seem to be of only local interest make the news in Europe. For instance, three or four months ago I saw a news story on German TV about the wildfires here in California. Now, we’ve all heard about the Australian fires, because of the criminal aspect as well as the extent of the death and devastation. That was an extraordinary case. But we have fires every year in California. They are dangerous and deadly to be sure, but not all that unusual. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715/69 "2009-02-22T21:03:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There is some truth to what he said. You will find conservatives deriding things like the “liberal media” and “elitist intellectuals” and “left-wing college professors” and “over-privileged college students” and “feminazi writers” and “radical artists” and all the other stereotypes that “attack American values”. _And_ nominating an insufferable boor of a vice presidential candidate who plunged into the sea of knowledge at numerous colleges and didn’t get the least bit wet. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715/70 "2009-02-22T21:47:42Z")
☹ > [@MichaelJohnBertrand](#): > > I don’t know. Just off the top of my head, how about by how many people think they have a personal guardian angel? 😛 Not a fair example of a deciding question at all. For instance, I no longer believe in a personal guardian angel. But HE has a different take on it! He has trouble believing YOU are real. Or, at least, “for real.” — Sorry, couldn’t resist. I keed, I keed. \* Carry on, everyone! - “Jack” - I hope that everybody by now knows that “I keed” is the equivalent of ;)! ---
**Author:** ![shydee30](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/74df32/32.png) [@shydee30](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shydee30)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715/71 "2009-02-23T01:20:13Z")
…than Europeans is debatable, but given that a slim majority just elected a racist, anti-Semitic, Marxist egomaniac with the IQ of a walnut doesn’t give me much hope. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715/72 "2009-02-23T03:10:46Z")
All I know is I’m so smart, my brain hurts. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715/73 "2009-02-23T03:32:44Z")
> [@shydee30](#): > > ..than Europeans is debatable, but given that a slim majority just elected a racist, anti-Semitic, Marxist egomaniac with the IQ of a walnut doesn’t give me much hope. I really don’t know what you mean. A slim majority of what electorate? ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715/74 "2009-02-23T05:21:14Z")
I think it’s Vaclav Klaus, the Czech prez now heading the EU, who’s known as a free-market anti-environmentalist loudmouth. (Might have once been Marxist, though…) ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715/75 "2009-02-23T06:19:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\ ***Potman** : At least in America, if you desire you can actually drive to a few other countries. Not so much in Australia. Can’t get anywhere by bus. Yet we seem to be at least a little less ignorant to the rest of the world. > [@](#): > > **Spectre** : Well, only two countries actually… I count nine before getting to the Panama Canal. Is there a barge or similar carrier that regularly takes a bus across the canal? I doubt that there’s a nickle’s worth of difference in the intelligence of Americans and Austrailians, but I do think that perhaps Americans have been exposed to other cultures more. And the Europeans, of course, are still more exposed, the lucky things. Since religious beliefs are most often a matter of nuture rather than nature, it might be a little _ignorant_ to judge a person’s overall knowledge or intelligence by her or his religious beliefs. Try being a little more objective. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715/76 "2009-02-23T14:35:47Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > I count nine before getting to the Panama Canal. Is there a barge or similar carrier that regularly takes a bus across the canal? The problem isn’t the canal: it’s the [Darién Gap](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dari%C3%A9n_Gap) that separates Panama and Colombia. So Panama is as far as you can go south from the US by road. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715/77 "2009-02-23T17:45:21Z")
> [@swiggy57](#): > > Am Amurikans dumbererer? yes. i american by the way. and u dont even wanna know about those there asians [QUOTE=swiggy57] American usually only speaks one language. [/QUOTE] And, in most cases, poorly. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715/78 "2009-02-23T19:32:25Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Well – too much fat, starch and sugar for my tastes, but thanks for clarifying! Hey, three out of the four real food groups ain’t bad! And the fourth is salt, which you can add just in case they didn’t put enough in. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715/79 "2009-02-23T19:53:50Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > I count nine before getting to the Panama Canal. Is there a barge or similar carrier that regularly takes a bus across the canal? Right, nine. Sure, no problem! With no integrated system of passenger trains, buses, or even roads, I’m sure it’s it’s just as easy to get from L.A. to Panama City as it is to buy a train ticket from Amsterdam to Rome. Most of Latin America doesn’t have passenger trains at all, though I’ve heard some of the bus systems are a lot better than American Greyhounds. And it need hardly be said that as you make the journey, the most prevalent language of the area you are traveling through will change only one time, and perhaps not even that. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715/80 "2009-02-23T20:11:21Z")
Believe me, you do _not_ want to go south past Mexico if you can avoid it, unless you’re taking a plane to South America (and not always there). It’s… just not a good idea. Aside from which, the idea that you would drive there is insane. That’s be likely casually hopping in a car in Madrid to get to Moscow. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-amurikans-dumbererer/486715.md?page=5)