# Am I a good and decent person? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191 "2009-05-21T16:28:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/41 "2009-05-21T18:36:50Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > But on certain issues, you can pretty much figure out that they’re a horrible person. > > If they support torture. > If they support genocide. > If they are Klansmen. > If they are Nazis. > If they are Communists. > > The torture debates have uncovered a few people that I will never listen to again, because they have revealed themselves to be moral lepers. I agree with your premise, that there are some issues which a person’s position does negate the possibility of them being a “good and decent person.” Abortion isn’t one of those for me - I’m very pro-choice, but accept that it is possible to be anti-choice for (misguided) reasons which don’t make a person evil. My problem is with you including Communist on this list. I’ve known a lot of communists who were good and decent people. Possibly you can accuse them of being naive, but there was nothing about their beliefs that made them “horrible.” ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/42 "2009-05-21T18:37:01Z")
I’m not sure I’ve ever heard the phrase “all good and decent people” used seriously. I suspect **BG** was exaggerating his views. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/43 "2009-05-21T18:40:55Z")
FTR, I’ve always found you to be good and decent, **Sarafeena.** But my opinion is just that. This place has been a wonderful one for me because I’ve had some ideas changed and some ignorance fought and will continue to, even at the hands of people I disagree with if not on the basic stuff, as a matter of general principle, just because they piss me off doesn’t mean I don’t have something to learn from them. You know in your heart you’re a good and decent person, stick with it. As long as you can effectively and honestly question your own ideas and beliefs to find the ground upon which you are most comfortable morally, you’re doing what I believe the board set out to do in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/44 "2009-05-21T18:43:01Z")
There are some Dopers here whose good opinion I value, including some with whom I differ greatly on religious & political issues. Then there are others whose vilification I receive as a badge of honor. But if a Doper I respected made a disparaging remark about a group I belonged to & I was convinced of the rightness of my group, I wouldn’t worry a moment about it. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/45 "2009-05-21T18:44:28Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Let’s remember, too, that the abortion subject and the personal affiliation some board personnel have for a side in it caused the huge mod meltdown a few months back and the imposition of the Pit rules. > > Not the finest moment this place ever saw, and the only thing that redeemed that whole mess for me was that a lot of pro-choice posters were able to see the basic unfairness of the treatment and protest it. Link please. I missed this! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/46 "2009-05-21T18:45:05Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > But on certain issues, you can pretty much figure out that they’re a horrible person. > > If they support torture. > If they support genocide. > If they are Klansmen. > If they are Nazis. > If they are Communists. So, anyone who dissents from a pro-abortion stance is the equivalent of a Nazi, Klansman, or torturer. You realize that you are sounding an awful lot like **Der Trihs** here, don’t you? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/47 "2009-05-21T18:48:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So, anyone who dissents from a pro-abortion stance is the equivalent of a Nazi, Klansman, or torturer. > > You realize that you are sounding an awful lot like **Der Trihs** here, don’t you? I don’t read that post as saying that anti-choice people fall into the category, just that there are certain viewpoints which do mean an adherent is “a horrible person.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/48 "2009-05-21T18:48:38Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Link please. I missed this! [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=496205](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=496205) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=496627](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=496627) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=497954](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=497954) ---
**Author:** ![Cowboy8467](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Cowboy8467](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cowboy8467)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/49 "2009-05-21T18:52:31Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Link please. I missed this! I think [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=496205&highlight=planned+parenthood) is the thread that started it. It then spawned a number of others. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=496808&highlight=planned+parenthood](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=496808&highlight=planned+parenthood) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=496627&highlight=planned+parenthood](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=496627&highlight=planned+parenthood) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/50 "2009-05-21T18:54:28Z")
Add these: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=506554](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=506554) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=506825](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=506825) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508842](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508842) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/51 "2009-05-21T18:55:45Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Link please. I missed this! [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=496205&page=2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=496205&page=2) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-496808.html](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-496808.html) > **[About Euthanasiast's suspension.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=496627)** > > I call bullshit. Stupid threads and stupid thread titles are the bread and butter of the Pit. Why single him out for trolling? Lynn says that he admitted that the information in the title is inaccurate, which is not true. He doesn’t admit to false... The SDMB did not exactly cover itself in glory this time. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/52 "2009-05-21T19:05:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So, anyone who dissents from a pro-abortion stance is the equivalent of a Nazi, Klansman, or torturer. That’s not what Lemur said _at all_. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/53 "2009-05-21T19:06:47Z")
re:Communists, my parents are and I don’t think they’re horrible people :). I don’t _agree_ with them, but I do sort of admire their gumption and idealism. > [@Shodan](#): > > So, anyone who dissents from a pro-abortion stance is the equivalent of a Nazi, Klansman, or torturer. He didn’t say that at all. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/54 "2009-05-21T19:08:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So, anyone who dissents from a pro-abortion stance is the equivalent of a Nazi, Klansman, or torturer. > > You realize that you are sounding an awful lot like **Der Trihs** here, don’t you? > > Regards, > Shodan If I wanted to put pro-lifers (or pro-choicers) on that list, I would have. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/55 "2009-05-21T19:10:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You are dealing with a lot of extremists here, I assume you’re including yourself in that group? If not, then you certainly qualify here: > [@Shodan](#): > > and more than that, with extremists who think of themselves as moderate. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/56 "2009-05-21T19:12:24Z")
> [@villa](#): > > My problem is with you including Communist on this list. I’ve known a lot of communists who were good and decent people. Possibly you can accuse them of being naive, but there was nothing about their beliefs that made them “horrible.” Yes, I’ll agree with this. Back in Australia, I knew a lot of people who were one flavor of communist or another – including one girl-friend’s parents, who had finished up in the Moscow-line communist party after the original Communist Party of Australia had first gone Czech-line, and then dissolved itself. They were very decent people: I asked them why they’d gone with the Moscow-line party, and they only said, “That’s just what were are.” But it was an ideology for them, not a belief in Stalinist purges and the like. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/57 "2009-05-21T19:20:53Z")
Well, lots of Nazis thought the same way. Being a member of the Communist party reveals either evil or a level of stupidity indistinguishable from evil, as does membership in the Klan, or the Aryan Nation, or the Nazi party. That doesn’t mean that I’d never forgive a former Communist, just like I can imagine forgiving a former Klansman or former Nazi. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/58 "2009-05-21T19:24:29Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Well, lots of Nazis thought the same way. Hello, Mr. Godwin! How’s the kids? > [@Lemur866](#): > > Being a member of the Communist party reveals either evil or a level of stupidity indistinguishable from evil, as does membership in the Klan, or the Aryan Nation, or the Nazi party. Why? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/59 "2009-05-21T19:26:59Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Well, lots of Nazis thought the same way. > > Being a member of the Communist party reveals either evil or a level of stupidity indistinguishable from evil, as does membership in the Klan, or the Aryan Nation, or the Nazi party. > > That doesn’t mean that I’d never forgive a former Communist, just like I can imagine forgiving a former Klansman or former Nazi. Nazi and Klan ideology, as opposed to the results, are based on a premise I find evil. They are inexcapably racist philosophies. What is it about Communist ideology that you find makes an adherent a horrible person automatically, without consideration of whether they support the methods used by some to (allegedly) attempt to bring about the objectives of Communism? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/60 "2009-05-21T19:30:36Z")
> [@villa](#): > > I don’t read that post as saying that anti-choice people fall into the category, just that there are certain viewpoints which do mean an adherent is “a horrible person.” Then the post doesn’t seem to have much of a point. Either being less than fervently pro-abortion means that you are a horrible person, or it doesn’t. If it does, well, then you misread his post. If it doesn’t, what is the point of the list of viewpoints? I didn’t vote for Obama, and I think Islamic terror is a bad thing. If the second has nothing to do with the first, why mention it? Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191.md?page=4)