# Am I a good and decent person? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191 "2009-05-21T16:28:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/121 "2009-05-22T14:02:02Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Low and behold: > . It’s pretty simple, really. Carol Stream called out a _specific_ individual because of his _specific_ ideas. (Paying crackwhores cash to have abortions). She made no comment at all about pro choice people as a whole, atleast that I saw. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/122 "2009-05-22T14:03:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I challenge your use of the word functional as it relates to **Carol Stream**. 😉 How about ‘Carol Stream has a functional penis.’ 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/123 "2009-05-22T14:08:05Z")
Saying that leaving the choice up to a woman is the position of good and decent people is, perhaps, not a position of extreme tolerance, but it’s pretty far removed from a dickish position, and hardly worth all the drama expressed by the fainting couch contingent of the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/124 "2009-05-22T14:08:56Z")
**Carol Stream** is a functional penis. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/125 "2009-05-22T14:19:46Z")
Perhaps it would be best to avoid inflammatory topics like politics, health care, stuff that upsets people. Puppy ears! Now, _there’s_ a debate topic that wouldn’t get people all upset! And it would help if you avoid having an extreme position! Stuff like “Well, there are lots of good arguments for Soylent Green, and some against…” Myself, its a bit hard to relate, I’ve been called a traitor, coward, and dirty fucking hippy for about forty years now. Used to really make me mad, now, that I’m older and wiser, it just totally pisses me off… ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/126 "2009-05-22T14:25:24Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > **Carol Stream** being a dick doesn’t excuse \*\*BrainGlutton \*\*being a dick. You know this. Get serious. > > As to the OP, look. I like to think that (on the infrequent occasions that I dip my toes in politics on this board) I’m a very moderate poster–that is, there are people on both sides who think I have asinine political opinions. There is a point where one has to ignore both the BrainGluttons and the Carol Streams to get any useful or entertaining conversations in–and I’ll admit, it’s struck me that it’s been getting harder and harder to do that in the years I’ve been a member, at least in GD and the Pit. I don’t have any solutions, nor any suggestions, except to do what makes you feel like your time spent here is not a waste–if that means not spending time here, that’s you and I for one am sorry to see you go. Thank you for this post, **Zeriel**. That’s exactly what I was trying to say…that it is getting harder and harder to have the conversations I came here to have. And I don’t mind ignoring such posters…I don’t bother to engage Der Trihs or Carol Stream for the most part. They are not being pitted here…I put them in a different category altogether. I woiuldn’t say they’re trolls, as I think they are sincere in their opinions, but they clearly aren’t interested in any kind of defense of their positions. So, I shrug them off. And this isn’t really a pitting of BrainGlutton either…it’s more about the tendency I’ve seen towards sweeping indictments of large segments of the population. And about writing your opponents off as evil so you don’t have to consider where they might be coming from. It’s intellectually lazy, which is kind of funny when you consider what this board is supposed to be all about. But I’m not planning on “leaving” the board…I didn’t mean for this to be a flame out, I’m taking my ball and going home type of thread. 🙂 It’s just not that much fun to debate here anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/127 "2009-05-22T14:38:53Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Saying that leaving the choice up to a woman You need to read his quote again. That is _not_ what he was saying. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/128 "2009-05-22T14:47:32Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > No, they don’t. Being exasperated when someone trumpets an argument that’s been debunked thirty times before as being new and exciting, and that person subsequently arguing in extremely bad faith is not having a dogma. But asserting that your theory (no matter how well it happens to explain reality) is THE TRUTH about things is dogma. Which, sadly, too many people maintaining perfectly reasonable positions about valid scientific theories tend to do.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/129 "2009-05-22T14:50:08Z")
A lot of GD seems to have ossified into a set of long running personal feuds which try to come as close as possible to the “no insults” line without going over. On the other hand, it’s politics. It makes people angry. They say over the top things and villify their opponents. The loudest and most obnoxious get the most attention. Political subjects cut to the core of how people view the world, and most people are talking at complete cross purposes to each other. There’s a reason politics and religion are often excluded as topics at gatherings where the host wants to make sure no ugly brawls burst out. Add to that the internet, where a ton of people with widely different views and experiences will be thrown together, and the check of having to deal with them in real life is removed. GD is a formal tea party compared to most of what’s out there. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/130 "2009-05-22T14:53:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Perhaps it would be best to avoid inflammatory topics like politics, health care, stuff that upsets people. Puppy ears! Now, _there’s_ a debate topic that wouldn’t get people all upset! Obviously, you’ve never debated the concept of “docking” a puppy’s ears with an animal rights activist! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/131 "2009-05-22T15:16:29Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > A lot of GD seems to have ossified into a set of long running personal feuds which try to come as close as possible to the “no insults” line without going over. That’s probably it. It seems to me that similar subjects are often discussed over and over again in GD. That’s to be expected, seeing how most of you are American and get the same news and talking points as each other, but it leads to a lack of diversity. However, I don’t really see this hostility that some (especially conservative) posters complain about. I post in GD from time to time, when I feel I can take a position no one’s taken yet, and I don’t feel anyone’s out to get me or “drive me off the board”. Even when they get angry, and they do. Maybe it’s because I don’t usually post in these “ossified” debates. And I must say that while I understand that some conservatives here may think liberals are unduly hostile to them, conservatives do it to liberals as well. Sure, maybe they’re less numerous here, but it doesn’t make it an acceptable strategy. But somehow it’s almost always conservatives who complain about it. Which I find really odd given what we’d imagine to be the character of each of these groups. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/132 "2009-05-22T17:14:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I can’t tell, **Hentor** - are you really that stupid, or are you trolling? > > Regards, > Shodan What? He can’t be both? > [@Hypnagogic Jerk](#): > > And I must say that while I understand that some conservatives here may think liberals are unduly hostile to them, conservatives do it to liberals as well. Sure, maybe they’re less numerous here, but it doesn’t make it an acceptable strategy. But somehow it’s almost always conservatives who complain about it. Which I find really odd given what we’d imagine to be the character of each of these groups. I’m afraid I’m going to have to disagree with these statements. It’s rare, even for the more, ahem, outrageous of the board’s conservatives, to engage in the types of name-calling and insult behavior that typifies many of the board’s threads and posters. It’s rare around here to see the board’s conservatives ranting and raving about looney lefties, airheads, tree-huggers, Communists, etc. - all of which are pretty much the equal counterpoints to the insults thrown around about conservatives and conservatism. Another thing is that what often gets called complaint around here is merely mention or acknowledge of the board’s bias. Are we supposed to pretend that we live in a vacuum? That the perfectly obvious doesn’t exist? The bias of this board frequently makes it impossible to have productive discussions, to get valid points across and to make possible the kind of give and take that leads to progress in coming to a solution to the problem or problems being discussed, and so that bias needs to be pointed out as a negative factor on a board that is supposed to be fighting ignorance. And then there’s another motivation which is that we want to make sure that these biased viewpoints don’t become accepted as being correct and widely held among society at large simply because the overwhelming majority here hold them and voice them so angrily and aggressively. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/133 "2009-05-22T17:16:09Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > It’s the goddamn internet, and as far as I am concerned you’re all a bunch of basement-dwelling D&D fucknuts with greasy ponytails masturbating to shitty Japanese cartoons (and calling it “anime” just makes you more of a loser) with pixellated vagina tentacles… I resent your stereotyping. As a fat, greasy fucknut, I’m sick of people automatically assuming my primary interest is tentacle porn. Yes, I do have _some_ tentacle porn, but it’s far from the majority. Also, that rant was magnificent, and I’m sad to see it receive such a tepid reception. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/134 "2009-05-22T17:18:58Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And then there’s another motivation which is that we want to make sure that these biased viewpoints don’t become accepted as being correct and widely held among society at large simply because the overwhelming majority here hold them and voice them so angrily and aggressively. And by here, you are referring to Earth? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/135 "2009-05-22T17:22:01Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > I resent your stereotyping. As a fat, greasy fucknut, I’m sick of people automatically assuming my primary interest is tentacle porn. Yes, I do have _some_ tentacle porn, but it’s far from the majority. > > Also, that rant was magnificent, and I’m sad to see it receive such a tepid reception. Too many words of more than one syllable. Probably lost their interest reading it, sadly. 😃 I should link to it in the thread on F-P, where I complain about the quality of ranting. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/136 "2009-05-22T17:28:31Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Well, in fairness, that would be a functional equivalent to **Brainglutton**. > > 😃 Now, now, be fair. At least **Carol Stream** is succinct. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/137 "2009-05-22T17:30:49Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Also, that rant was magnificent, and I’m sad to see it receive such a tepid reception. Hey, I said I appreciated it! It made me chuckle. I forgot to answer Heffalump and Roo’s questions: > [@](#): > > Do you have a suggestion about what can be done about it here? No, I don’t think you can really control the culture of a message board. It may change over time, but you can’t direct it to go one way or another. > [@](#): > > Or more interestingly for me, do you have an alternative? If I had an alternative, do you think I’d be here going boo hoo hoo I’m all sad about this place? 😉 There are other places I go for other reasons, but for real debate and current events, I don’t have another place I think is better. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/138 "2009-05-22T18:02:42Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m afraid I’m going to have to disagree with these statements. It’s rare, even for the more, ahem, outrageous of the board’s conservatives, to engage in the types of name-calling and insult behavior that typifies many of the board’s threads and posters. It’s rare around here to see the board’s conservatives ranting and raving about looney lefties, airheads, tree-huggers, Communists, etc. - all of which are pretty much the equal counterpoints to the insults thrown around about conservatives and conservatism. Well you, for one, claim that today’s America (or world? I’m not sure) is much less civil than it was when you were a kid, and (this is important) that it’s somehow the liberals’ fault. I have no doubt that you really believe it to be true, so you don’t consider that to be off-the-wall ranting. But do notice that you’re basically indicting the entire liberal political philosophy (in all its diversity) as directly leading to a lack of civility. Without really explaining how what you deplore demonstrates a greater lack of civility than before, and more importantly, without demonstrating how this supposed lack of civility is a consequence of a liberal worldview. (Unless you’ve done that and I missed it; if so could you please link?) I think that’s a pretty bad insult on your part. Not as bad as calling conservatives Nazis, but I certainly feel insulted by it, seeing how I try to be as polite and civil as possible in most circumstances. > [@](#): > > Another thing is that what often gets called complaint around here is merely mention or acknowledge of the board’s bias. Are we supposed to pretend that we live in a vacuum? That the perfectly obvious doesn’t exist? I think the vast majority of posters here recognize that from an American perspective, this board leans toward the “liberal” side. They may point out that from a world perspective, it might not be so left-leaning, but that’s not a refusal to acknowledge the board’s slant. (And it’s hard to say because to me the board is first and foremost American-leaning; you can’t really describe how it tilts on the world stage since almost all political discussion is America-centric.) But if a conservative says something like “of course now the usual suspects will come out of the woodwork :rolleyes:”, don’t be surprised if the liberals come to criticize this conservative. They’re not refusing to acknowledge the board’s bias, they’re responding to a taunt. > [@](#): > > The bias of this board frequently makes it impossible to have productive discussions, to get valid points across and to make possible the kind of give and take that leads to progress in coming to a solution to the problem or problems being discussed, and so that bias needs to be pointed out as a negative factor on a board that is supposed to be fighting ignorance. I don’t believe the way the majority of the posters lean politically make it impossible to have productive discussions. I’ve been in debates here where I was the only one defending some position, and I sure hope everyone learned something anyway. It would certainly be good if we had a greater diversity of opinions (do remember that you can’t divide the world’s political spectrum neatly in “American liberalism”, “American conservatism” and “American libertarianism”; at least you guys do get voices around here) but we have to make do with what we get. > [@](#): > > And then there’s another motivation which is that we want to make sure that these biased viewpoints don’t become accepted as being correct and widely held among society at large simply because the overwhelming majority here hold them and voice them so angrily and aggressively. The SDMB doesn’t have the power to influence opinions among “society at large”. Really. And I’d like to believe that we can open our minds to opinions we don’t hear often. That’s part of what I try to do here. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/139 "2009-05-22T18:24:10Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Well, that’s true of us all. The only thing we can make judgments on is the content of our posts and the positions we individually hold. That’s why, in one sense, ASKING people if you are a ‘good and decent person’ is rather silly…really, no one but you can make that call. > > Of course, I’m one of those elitist assholes who believes my self image is not and should not be a reflection of what others think, so you should take my own opinion on this with a mountain of salt. 😉 > > As to whether BG’s judgment is fair or reasonable…of course not. BG is not a fair or reasonable person. Nor do I think he was seriously making a judgment of you there…I think he tossed that out as a debate point or a throw away line. I doubt he was seriously judging you there, though of course he’s free to come on in and give his own spin on the discussion and his comments. > > On the point about moral issues being used to determine a person’s goodness or decency, I’d say…that’s human nature. We all use our own moral yardstick in order to size up others we encounter. Personally and in general I don’t make moral assessments of my fellow 'dopers as far as whether they are good or decent (there have been some exceptions). I generally categorize them as ‘interesting’, ‘provocative’, ‘well informed’…or, in some cases ‘idiot’, ‘moron’, or ‘too stupid for words’. For my part I TRY and take people one thread at a time, and try not to carry over opinions or bias from thread to thread…again, there are exceptions to this and I’m only human. As an example of my failing here there is friend gonzo who has graciously joined the thread to provide his usual non sequitur drive by. > > Finally, on the issue of what’s good or bad for the board I’ll just say…don’t sweat it. I think that by and large 'dopers refrain from making ‘moral’ judgments based on a poster or a posters message or style. I think, again in general, that 'dopers are going to categorize fellow 'dopers based loosely on similar criteria to my own…i.e. ‘interesting’ or ‘moron’, or some level on that continuum. As for the idiots who are going to try and make moral judgments of you or anyone else based on their various stances on a message board…I wouldn’t fret about it. > > JMHO, FWIW and all that. > > -XT Could not resist could you? It is who and what you are. The lowering of debates falls at your feet . You are guilty more than anyone but Shodan. Shodan does not say post as often, but is even nastier. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/140 "2009-05-22T19:07:28Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > **Carol Stream** is a functional penis. Minus the word “functional.” And **ivn1188**? It’s “fix” stupid. Not “fight” stupid. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191.md?page=8)