# Am I a good and decent person? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191 "2009-05-21T16:28:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/161 "2009-05-23T12:50:58Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Thanks for remembering. > Depends on the “you”, I guess. It seems that at least one person or a few have changed this place, either some or dramatically, depending on your viewpoint. > > But yes, given the way this message board functions, a given poster probably can’t do all that much to change the culture here. On the other hand, you’ve pointed out one poster who is changing the culture. . . just not in the way you want it to be changed. I guess what I meant is that you can only really have control over your own behavior…you can’t control how people react. My issue here isn’t so much with bias, it’s with the sweeping, unsupported generalizations (coming from both sides), which really shouldn’t be tolerated in GD. > [@](#): > > And you may have a bigger influence than you realize. Perhaps the fact that you post less here has given rise to more people becoming emboldened to take more extreme views. If they knew they had to argue with you, they might have thought twice about it. Well I doubt that, but thanks for saying so. 😛 > [@](#): > > So do you think the place has changed, or your expectation of it? Or both? You know, I’m not sure now that you mention it. Maybe it’s a bit of burnout on my part. I went from exasperation at myself for writing such a sucky OP to general embarrassment about the whole thing. But as long as I made it about me, let me ask another question…when I see the words “good and decent,” I don’t think of someone above and beyond normal people, but rather, just regular, every day goodness and decency, as most likely descibes the vast majority of posters here. One of the thing that continues to amaze me about this place is how it seems to describe a much more divided America than I thought there was. I know that they yak on the TV and the radio about the culture wars, but I really don’t see it that much in my everyday life. Living where I do, I’m around people all the time who are very different from me…different races, religions, political stripes, etc. I’m dear, close friends with all kinds of these people. The _least_ you can say about most of them is that they are good and decent. But here, people seem to categorize good and decent based _solely_ on who you vote for, perhaps not even knowing the reason why. Is this really how it works out there, or is it a function of the internet, and people being more blunt than they might be in real life? Of course, I’m pretty moderate, so my viewpoint on this might be a little different on this, but I very rarely come across anyone with views that I find so abhorrent that I wouldn’t be willing to associate with them. (Not that there aren’t views I wouldn’t be able to tolerate, I just don’t run across people who hold them.) Here, I get the impression that people quite deliberately avoid others who hold differing political or religious views. Is this impression accurate, or am I seeing things? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/162 "2009-05-23T13:09:03Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Seriously Gonz…how would you know? You are too stupid to figure out what you have written, let alone bright enough to understand how others read your, um, posts. > > -XT Gee, that was just as clever and refreshing as the 60 previous times you said that in the thread you devoted to the subject. Are you really that much cooler if you ride in the back seat of the short bus? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/163 "2009-05-23T15:15:44Z")
You tell me Hentor…you seem to know more about it. -XT ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/164 "2009-05-23T15:28:24Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > You tell me Hentor…you seem to know more about it. > > -XT Ooooh, _snap_! Wilde? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/165 "2009-05-23T16:10:02Z")
Buck… -XT ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/166 "2009-05-23T16:16:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Ooooh, _snap_! Wilde? Reubens. Well, Herman anyway. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/167 "2009-05-23T16:20:14Z")
You know, he never hired a lawyer in that porn-theater, monkey-spanking case. He figured he could get himself off! (fud-a-bump, _ting_!) ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/168 "2009-05-23T17:01:02Z")
No one will confuse what **xtisme** has for rapier-like wit. No one will confuse what **gonzomax** demonstrates for sharp-as-tacks intelligence. They are well-suited for a snipe fest. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/169 "2009-05-23T18:00:09Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > I guess what I meant is that you can only really have control over your own behavior…you can’t control how people react. My issue here isn’t so much with bias, it’s with the sweeping, unsupported generalizations (coming from both sides), which really shouldn’t be tolerated in GD. If you can only control your own behavior, then who shouldn’t be tolerating the sweeping, unsupported generalizations in GD? > [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Well I doubt that, but thanks for saying so. 😛 If modesty doesn’t allow you to accept this, then how about if one or a few other moderate conservatives left here, could that make a difference as to how the conversations here take shape? > [@Sarahfeena](#): > > But here, people seem to categorize good and decent based _solely_ on who you vote for, perhaps not even knowing the reason why. Is this really how it works out there, or is it a function of the internet, and people being more blunt than they might be in real life? A bit of both, I suspect. GD is a place that, by its very nature, is a polarized place. People are debating different sides to an issue. If everyone agreed on everything, there wouldn’t be anything to debate. Some people who are attracted to that, might be attracted for the reason that they hold very strong views that they can’t express in real life. In real life, do some people consider other people as less good and decent if they don’t hold the same views? Sure. I’ve seen this in some people who hold very rigid religious views. They see me as less good and decent than they are because I don’t hold their views and treat me accordingly. Conversely, in most areas of my life where I meet with people, our connection comes from something that isn’t so polarized, so our views on most subjects don’t matter. If I join a gardening club, I would spend most of my time talking about gardening and probably wouldn’t discuss my political or religious views. And it would work the same way on a gardening forum, for the most part. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/170 "2009-05-23T19:09:44Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > You tell me Hentor…you seem to know more about it. > > -XT It looks like about two hours elapsed between my post and the above retort. xt, I’m going to be generous and assume you weren’t working to come up with that one for the entire two hours. On the other hand, given the nature of the message board, there’s no real time limit for replying. Next time, you might want to let your response percolate just a touch more. This one was just a tad weak. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/171 "2009-05-23T19:23:23Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Only when ground really fine and snorted through the left nostril… > > Seriously Gonz…how would you know? You are too stupid to figure out what you have written, let alone bright enough to understand how others read your, um, posts. > > -XT XT is proving my point again. Very good and very predictable. Children like you are soooooo predictable. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/172 "2009-05-23T22:21:01Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] No one will confuse what xtisme has for rapier-like wit. [/QUOTE] No, probably not. Of course, your own isn’t exactly that sharp either. 😛 [QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] It looks like about two hours elapsed between my post and the above retort. xt, I’m going to be generous and assume you weren’t working to come up with that one for the entire two hours. [/QUOTE] Well, that’s really good of you Hentor! I appreciate your generosity. As it happens I am, sadly, unable to sit by the computer waiting breathlessly to reply to every post in every thread that I’m involved in…especially silly one’s like this. I know that is probably confusing to you…but that RL stuff intrudes from time to time. But I really do appreciate your generosity…I didn’t think you had it in you, old boy! > [@](#): > > On the other hand, given the nature of the message board, there’s no real time limit for replying. Next time, you might want to let your response percolate just a touch more. This one was just a tad weak. I will certainly strive to keep that in mind. Thanks for the advice…as always, it’s been a pleasure chatting with you! -XT ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/173 "2009-05-23T23:44:14Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Well, that’s really good of you Hentor! I appreciate your generosity. As it happens I am, sadly, unable to sit by the computer waiting breathlessly to reply to every post in every thread that I’m involved in…especially silly one’s like this. I know that is probably confusing to you…but that RL stuff intrudes from time to time. Not surprisingly, I don’t think you got the joke. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2009, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/174 "2009-05-24T00:47:26Z")
I wouldn’t normally do this, but considering my failure to make the point I wanted to in the OP and the fact that it’s just degenerated into an insult war, maybe a mod could close it and put it out of its misery. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/175 "2009-05-24T00:49:50Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > I wouldn’t normally do this, but considering my failure to make the point I wanted to in the OP Sorry to hear this. I was interested in hearing your thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2009, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/176 "2009-05-24T02:28:52Z")
Its not about being good and/or decent. You’re nice. I’m betting your husband is nice, too, in a manly sort of way. Kids are probably nice too, though its hard to be sure, I’ve known families of five being three pussycats and two rattlesnakes. I’m not nice, this is not the way of my people. Its kind of like tidy people. I go into a tidy persons home, I feel instantly constricted and bound. waltzing drunk in a mine field, I cannot move _naturally_, but consciously, carefully, I feel like I have to go outside to fart. We not-nice don’t _want_ to hurt anybody, its just that we cannot be bothered to sand off the edges of our words, its tiresome and cramps our style. We prefer our own, of course, where snide is free and chops are cheerfully busted. And we have a perfectly sensible reason for that: we like it. If you gave it some thought, you might be able to come up with something I said to you that made you mad, or hurt your feelings. Because you’re nice, and I’m not. But I beg you to consider all the stuff I didn’t say to you. And many others of us in the not-nice tribe have, no doubt, stifled their snark or wait in ambush for a better target. So there is a quality in you that is being respected, even though it may not be evident. You’re nice. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/177 "2009-05-24T02:29:22Z")
The OP has asked me to close this thread. I will do so in 24 hours unless I hear objections. **Gfactor** Pit Moderator ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2009, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/178 "2009-05-24T02:39:59Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] Not surprisingly, I don’t think you got the joke. [/QUOTE] Surprisingly I did. Not surprisingly I don’t think you got my own humor there. While you seemingly attribute my own supposed denseness to your assessment of my stupidity however, I attribute your own failure to the fact that my sense of humor is often obscure, with myriad inside jokes shared with my small circle of friends on this board and off. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/179 "2009-05-24T03:08:00Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > If you can only control your own behavior, then who shouldn’t be tolerating the sweeping, unsupported generalizations in GD? I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to ignore your post when I asked for the thread to be closed. I’m not sure I understand this question, though. It would seem to me that anyone with a bit of an open mind and who is willing to use logic wouldn’t tolerate it. > [@](#): > > If modesty doesn’t allow you to accept this, then how about if one or a few other moderate conservatives left here, could that make a difference as to how the conversations here take shape? I’m not sure…I actually think that most of the moderate conservatives already have made the decision not to post in GD. > [@](#): > > A bit of both, I suspect. GD is a place that, by its very nature, is a polarized place. People are debating different sides to an issue. If everyone agreed on everything, there wouldn’t be anything to debate. Some people who are attracted to that, might be attracted for the reason that they hold very strong views that they can’t express in real life. > > In real life, do some people consider other people as less good and decent if they don’t hold the same views? Sure. I’ve seen this in some people who hold very rigid religious views. They see me as less good and decent than they are because I don’t hold their views and treat me accordingly. > > Conversely, in most areas of my life where I meet with people, our connection comes from something that isn’t so polarized, so our views on most subjects don’t matter. If I join a gardening club, I would spend most of my time talking about gardening and probably wouldn’t discuss my political or religious views. And it would work the same way on a gardening forum, for the most part. I guess you’re right that in general, we don’t necessarily even know what our friends’ political viewpoints are, and clearly GD is an opportunity to express them outright. And this is bound to create clashes of philosophy and outlook. I guess I just don’t understand the black-and-whiteness of the opinions. Maybe my mind just doesn’t work quite that way. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2009, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191/180 "2009-05-24T03:22:41Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Its not about being good and/or decent. You’re nice. I’m betting your husband is nice, too, in a manly sort of way. Kids are probably nice too, though its hard to be sure, I’ve known families of five being three pussycats and two rattlesnakes. Ha ha. I guess we are nice. My husband definitely not as much as me, and as far as he is, it’s more boyish than manly, but I guess I get your point. My kids we have yet to determine…they are too young to really know for sure. But I come from a family of rattlesnakes, if you can believe it. 🙂 > [@](#): > > I’m not nice, this is not the way of my people. > > Its kind of like tidy people. I go into a tidy persons home, I feel instantly constricted and bound. waltzing drunk in a mine field, I cannot move _naturally_, but consciously, carefully, I feel like I have to go outside to fart. > > We not-nice don’t _want_ to hurt anybody, its just that we cannot be bothered to sand off the edges of our words, its tiresome and cramps our style. We prefer our own, of course, where snide is free and chops are cheerfully busted. And we have a perfectly sensible reason for that: we like it. > > If you gave it some thought, you might be able to come up with something I said to you that made you mad, or hurt your feelings. Because you’re nice, and I’m not. But I beg you to consider all the stuff I didn’t say to you. And many others of us in the not-nice tribe have, no doubt, stifled their snark or wait in ambush for a better target. > > So there is a quality in you that is being respected, even though it may not be evident. > > You’re nice. Oh, sure, plenty of people here have made me mad. Hurt feelings, maybe not so much, but sure, I have, you know, emotions just like anyone. 🙂 My point wasn’t that it was about me and my delicate feelings, though. You’re saying here that you can’t sand the edge off your words…to me, what that means is that you’re going to say what you think without worrying about what people think about it. Which I can respect, of course. What that means to me, though, is that when you say that a person isn’t good and decent because of a certain politial opinion, that’s what you really mean. And that’s what I don’t get. I don’t get really believing a person is evil based on their stance on abortion (and, incidentally, that means a pro-lifer believing that YOU are evil, as well as vice-versa). I don’t know if this is due to my “niceness,” but I can’t imagine being _that_ rigid on the subject, at least from a political standpoint. P.S. I don’t think I’m supposed to say this, but I’m kind of drunk right now, so I hope that made sense! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-good-and-decent-person/497191.md?page=10)