# Am I a hard-core lefty, like I tell people? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 14, 2021, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516 "2021-07-14T22:33:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516/41 "2021-07-15T09:21:47Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > would you say it would be an improvement if impoverishing the rich meant also lowering the living standards of the poor, so long as the rich lost more so that society was more ‘equitable’? Of course not, but I utterly reject the premise of your question. Would you be in favor of peace, love and perfect harmony on Earth if it also meant that the planet would be swallowed by space dragons? If you were to ask me if I were willing to take a chance that that equality will wreck everyone’s standard of living, I’d have to ask you back (or consider on my own) what that chance looks like. 5%? Roll the dice. 75%? Uh, maybe hold off on that equality for a bit until we can figure out how to lower those odds. I found the second batch of poll questions better than the first. [8values Results](https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=91.7&d=87.8&g=84.4&s=95.3) I had to think a little bit about some of these choices. I had no idea how I thought about international tariffs. for example. I came out pretty strongly lefty on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516/42 "2021-07-15T09:45:28Z")
I got “Centrist.” I still consider myself a left-wing hippie. 66% Social 45% Balanced 47% Moderate 46% Neutral ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516/43 "2021-07-15T09:58:00Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > The Pew quiz rates me as a Solid Liberal. > > The 8values quiz calls it Libertarian Socialism - which I’m not sure I agree with. Pew had me as a Core Conservative, like I’d said, and 8values says — Neo-Liberalism? ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516/44 "2021-07-15T10:22:57Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Pew had me as a Core Conservative, like I’d said, and 8values says — Neo-Liberalism? There doesn’t seem to be any contradiction. Britannica [says](https://www.britannica.com/topic/neoliberalism): > **Neoliberalism** , ideology and policy model that emphasizes the value of free market competition. > > Although there is considerable debate as to the defining features of neoliberal thought and practice, it is most commonly associated with laissez-faire economics. > > In particular, neoliberalism is often characterized in terms of its belief in sustained economic growth as the means to achieve human progress, its confidence in free markets as the most-efficient allocation of resources, its emphasis on minimal state intervention in economic and social affairs, and its commitment to the freedom of trade and capital. > > Although the terms are similar, neoliberalism is distinct from modern liberalism. > > Both have their ideological roots in the classical liberalism of the 19th century, which championed economic laissez-faire and the freedom (or liberty) of individuals against the excessive power of government. … Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy [says](https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/neoliberalism/): > Though not all scholars agree on the meaning of the term, “neoliberalism” is now generally thought to label the philosophical view that a society’s political and economic institutions should be robustly liberal and capitalist, but supplemented by a constitutionally limited democracy and a modest welfare state. … ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516/45 "2021-07-15T10:31:27Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > I got “Centrist.” I still consider myself a left-wing hippie. Being on the right wing of hippiedom is still, like, cool, man! 😀 ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516/46 "2021-07-15T10:56:17Z")
Pew quiz said Disaffected Democrat, 8values says Social Liberalism. Many of the questions are just impossible to answer, though: > Those with a greater ability to pay should receive better healthcare. It’s certainly not a principal I aspire to in a society, but what’s the alternative? Those who can afford to pay for better healthcare are banned from doing so? I don’t support that. A lot of it comes down to how you interpret the question. At least the second quiz doesn’t require you to choose between two statements where you disagree with both. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516/47 "2021-07-15T11:10:42Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > So many of those questions are false dichotomies… Example. > > “The economic system in this country unfairly favors powerful interests” > “The economic system in this country is generally fair to most Americans” > > “The obstacles that once made it harder for women than men to get ahead are now largely gone” > “There are still significant obstacles that make it harder for women to get ahead than men” > > ~Max, also core conservative. No they are not. – Solid Liberal. ---
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516/48 "2021-07-15T12:20:09Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > Maybe. What are your thoughts on LGBT rights? Abortion? Separation of church and state? Environmentalism? The association of these causes with the left in the USA in the 21st century is accidental and parochial. In other places and other times, the left-most party would not have agreed with this association. I’d go further and say that it is a strategic mistake and harmful to our cause to make these issues determinative in our perception of who is and is not _on the left_. ---
**Author:** ![tavaritz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/71e660/32.png) [@tavaritz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tavaritz)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516/49 "2021-07-15T12:25:00Z")
Didn’t want to read all the messages so there might be these points made already. I just wanted to reply to the very many times heard slogan: “giving money to lazy bums.” 1st: Given possibility to work for real compensation most people will accept that. Not all but so many that the rest will drown in the masses. 2nd: Given that no-one want to employ 60-years old telecom engineer. I’m not a lazy bum and I’m sick of hearing that I get over €1000 in month as dole when €980 goes to my rent. If you want to stop giving me over €1000 per month start regulating rents. But no, the same people who don’t want to regulate rents are the same people who complain that bums get more than €1000 in dole. And they are not leftists. 3rd: It’s given that if you give those who have nothing some money, they don’t put it on a bank account, but use it. So if you want to boost your economy, give money to the poor, becase they will all inject it back. Give it to rich and they don’t. I dare you to ask me if I’m leftist. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516/50 "2021-07-15T12:30:58Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > “The economic system in this country unfairly favors powerful interests” > “The economic system in this country is generally fair to most Americans” > > “The obstacles that once made it harder for women than men to get ahead are now largely gone” > “There are still significant obstacles that make it harder for women to get ahead than men” What would be a statement you’d agree with in those cases? ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516/51 "2021-07-15T16:12:29Z")
Yes, this was a much better quiz. I’m a Democratic Socialist. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516/52 "2021-07-15T16:30:42Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > > [@Max\_S](#): > > > > “The economic system in this country unfairly favors powerful interests” > > “The economic system in this country is generally fair to most Americans” > > > > “The obstacles that once made it harder for women than men to get ahead are now largely gone” > > “There are still significant obstacles that make it harder for women to get ahead than men” > > What would be a statement you’d agree with in those cases? I agree with all four statements ~Max ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516/53 "2021-07-15T16:32:37Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I agree with all four statements > > ~Max What are you, some kind of troublemaker? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516/54 "2021-07-15T16:40:07Z")
No, seriously. For example the equal opportunity employment laws, women suffrage, college admissions… Those were huge obstacles for women, now _de jure_ removed. But there is still a pay gap, underrepresentation of women, &etc. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516/55 "2021-07-15T16:51:50Z")
You’re right, of course. Much has been done and much is left to do. That’s why these kinds of internet political litmus tests are such a pointless exercise. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516/56 "2021-07-15T16:57:23Z")
Maybe they are, but I see the questions more as “which of these do you believe should be steering public policy more?” ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516/57 "2021-07-15T17:00:05Z")
Yeah. It’s “Make a call, including ‘Dunno, too close to call’”–Jesus Christ, if you had more questions that were slam dunks, you’d have the first test all over again. Some folks just like to bitch I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516/58 "2021-07-15T21:11:12Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > We can all engage in idle speculation (I’m totally good with that), or … you can Take The Test, and then we’ll all know 🙂 According to that… Your best fit is… # Opportunity Democrats along with 12% of the public. But when looking at the definition of Opportunity Democrats, it doesn’t quite fit. I am strongly critical of Trump, and I do think that there are significant barriers to minorities and women trying to get ahead. > [@Max\_S](#): > > So many of those questions are false dichotomies… I really disliked the question: “Racial discrimination is the main reason why many black people can’t get ahead these days” “Black people who can’t get ahead in this country are mostly responsible for their own condition” I believe strongly that anyone can get ahead if they have a good work ethic and are responsible with their money. So I believe that most people in general are responsible for their own condition, including Black people. (Not everyone, but most.) But I also think that systemic racism makes it more difficult for Black people than others. There is no way to reflect that belief answering that question. According to the 8values quiz, I am into “Social Liberalism”. 🤷‍♂️ ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516/59 "2021-07-15T22:35:48Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I really disliked the question: > > “Racial discrimination is the main reason why many black people can’t get ahead these days” > > “Black people who can’t get ahead in this country are mostly responsible for their own condition” As stated, they give you your answer on a silver platter: you pick the middle choice, which basically says “They both have a lot of merit to them.” What, do you want them to click on the actual box for you? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516/60 "2021-07-15T23:04:10Z")
No middle choice in the Pew survey. ~Max [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-hard-core-lefty-like-i-tell-people/946516.md?page=4)