# Am I a prude? Ashley Madison.com **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 6, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-prude-ashley-madison-com/480088 "2009-01-06T14:52:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Atomicflea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@Atomicflea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomicflea)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-prude-ashley-madison-com/480088/1 "2009-01-06T14:52:48Z")
So I suscribe to Sirius and listen to Stern in the mornings during my hour-and-a-half commute in. [Ashleymadison.com](http://www.ashleymadison.com/app/public/index.p)is one of his advertisers. According to thier site, they also advertise or were mentioned on Dr. Phil, Tyra, Ellen, 20/20 and Larry King. The jingle sings “Ashley Madison, find your lovers here” and the narrator talks about how the site is designed for those that are “missing something” in their relationships. It “guarantees” them a “discreet affair”. Now, I know that several Dopers are polyamorous, and I don’t want this to become a discussion of that, because that’s not what this site is about. It is a site specifically meant for people in committed relationships to find someone with whom to have a discrete (unknown) affair. Their tagline is “Life is short. Have an affair.” I never considered myself a prude, but every time I hear this commercial it turns my stomach. I’m happily married and have no cause for doubt, but my parents’ marriage was riddled by infidelity and it made my mother miserable. While I know that someone who wants to cheat will find a way, I can’t believe someone started a business on this premise. What bad karma. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-prude-ashley-madison-com/480088/2 "2009-01-06T14:57:30Z")
To be honest I find it kind of vile, too, but it just goes to show you the market will meet any demand. Of course, some people find porn sites horrible (some even think it constitutes cheating if you’re married) and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with porn as long as kids aren’t involved. What squicks me out about Ashley Madison (who also advertise in newspapers) is that they are actively involved in facilitating the breaking of civil contracts. In a sense, cheating on your spouse is, technically, illegal. It’s not a criminal act, but it makes you civilly liable. They’re essentially facilitating the breaking of contracts. It’s profoundly unethical, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-prude-ashley-madison-com/480088/3 "2009-01-06T14:59:56Z")
You listen to Stern? Regularly? No, you’re not a prude. ---
**Author:** ![Atomicflea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@Atomicflea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomicflea)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-prude-ashley-madison-com/480088/4 "2009-01-06T15:18:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It’s profoundly unethical, IMHO. I think that’s it. Not that I expect Stern to be moral, but I suppose I do expect him to be ethical. I guess he doesn’t have the luxury of turning down advertisers, though. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > You listen to Stern? Regularly? No, you’re not a prude. Thanks for the factual evidence. 😃 Is there a situation where the use of the site would be ethically and morally justified? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-prude-ashley-madison-com/480088/5 "2009-01-06T15:22:39Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > In a sense, cheating on your spouse is, technically, illegal. It’s not a criminal act, but it makes you civilly liable. They’re essentially facilitating the breaking of contracts. It’s profoundly unethical, IMHO. There is a cause of action called “intentional interference with contractual relationships.” However, I believe it requires a much more active effort than simply providing an opportunity to breach a contract. In fact, so far as the law is concerned, there’s nothing at all wrong with “efficient” breach of contract, and it might as well be encouraged. It seems to me the vast majority of commercial enterprises are providing opportunities for breach of contract. This Web site might be unusual in that it seems that all its transactions constitute breach of contract, but let’s look at that more closely. I’m not sure you’re correct in asserting that marital fidelity basically constitutes a legally enforceable provision of a civil contract. Perhaps that was (is) the case in fault divorce regimes. However, most jurisdictions now are no-fault regimes. There is no need to show breach in order to dissolve a marriage. Marriage might at one point have constituted something more like a civil contract between two parties, but I think that law and custom have changed to the extent that it’s not really useful to continue using contract law as a model for marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-prude-ashley-madison-com/480088/6 "2009-01-06T15:23:09Z")
Guess what the advertisement between the first and second posts might be! Yep. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-prude-ashley-madison-com/480088/7 "2009-01-06T15:42:04Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > There is a cause of action called “intentional interference with contractual relationships.” However, I believe it requires a much more active effort than simply providing an opportunity to breach a contract. In fact, so far as the law is concerned, there’s nothing at all wrong with “efficient” breach of contract, and it might as well be encouraged. It seems to me the vast majority of commercial enterprises are providing opportunities for breach of contract. > > This Web site might be unusual in that it seems that all its transactions constitute breach of contract, but let’s look at that more closely. I’m not sure you’re correct in asserting that marital fidelity basically constitutes a legally enforceable provision of a civil contract. Perhaps that was (is) the case in fault divorce regimes. However, most jurisdictions now are no-fault regimes. There is no need to show breach in order to dissolve a marriage. > > Marriage might at one point have constituted something more like a civil contract between two parties, but I think that law and custom have changed to the extent that it’s not really useful to continue using contract law as a model for marriage. See, now, that’s the problem with you young whippersnappers. At common law, back in the day, we had the tort of _alienation of affection_, which is what is described here: a cause of action against a third party for action which leads to the dissolution of a marriage. The usual target was the spouse’s partner in adultery, but alienation of affection suits were brought against others who maliciously sought to destroy the marriage. The plaintiff typically had to show a tortfeasor that, by his malicious or deliberate conduct, alienated the genuine love that previously existed between spouses. (I say “we had” only in the sense that this was what they claimed in school; I never saw such a claim in real life and this wasn’t my area of law anyway…) So far as I remember, there are still a handful of states that recognize this tort; most have abolished it. Just another sign of these decadent, modern times, if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-prude-ashley-madison-com/480088/8 "2009-01-06T15:49:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So far as I remember, there are still a handful of states that recognize this tort; most have abolished it. Just another sign of these decadent, modern times, if you ask me. Maybe. But maybe it’s a developing recognition that marriage is a personal human relationship quite unlike a commercial relationship governed by contract and that the parties should not be able to look to the state to punish bad acts or remedy harms. In a way, it makes a marital relationship more personal/human/sacred and less businesslike. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-prude-ashley-madison-com/480088/9 "2009-01-06T15:52:45Z")
It definitely seems like a sleazy business to be in. I don’t think there was that much less sleeping around in the past, but I just think women stayed with their husband because of lack of career options and the stigma of divorce. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-prude-ashley-madison-com/480088/10 "2009-01-06T15:55:39Z")
Those radio ads just reek, and I’m often surprised when and where they show up (like, back in the day when I listened to the radio, during prime hours on mainstream stations. And they’re not quite subtle enough to keep a 10-year-old from asking, ‘Mom, what’s an affair?’). Obviously, people are using other dating sites to cheat, creating fake personas and all that, but this is just so blatant. Certainly the shortness of life can’t be helped by getting herpes from a stranger and giving it to your unassuming spouse. You have to admire the courage, though, of the attached people who include their photos in their profiles. Let’s hope their SOs don’t know how to work a computer. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-prude-ashley-madison-com/480088/11 "2009-01-06T15:57:30Z")
> [@Atomicflea](#): > > Is there a situation where the use of the site would be ethically and morally justified? Nope. Okay, one, stretched all the way out into HypotheticalLand: if a person is brain dead but being kept “alive” on a respirator and feeding tube and is never ever going to get better and his/her spouse is lonely, I wouldn’t judge him/her for having a discrete affair. Much. Otherwise, informed consent is key. ---
**Author:** ![Caricci](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Caricci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caricci)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-prude-ashley-madison-com/480088/12 "2009-01-06T16:31:25Z")
I also listen to Stern and find these ads more vile than any others - and he had one for ball deodorant. (Actually, it’s nice for balls to smell good, so maybe it’s not a good example.) Not only is the subject vile, but the writing is too. “Wow, look at you! All smiles and no more desperation!” Come on, “no more desperation”? Who even says that??? ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-prude-ashley-madison-com/480088/13 "2009-01-06T16:59:12Z")
Does it make it any less unethical if the person isn’t married but is in a long-term exclusive relationship, and just wants a little something on the side without ending the relationship? ---
**Author:** ![Gwyen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/858c86/32.png) [@Gwyen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gwyen)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-prude-ashley-madison-com/480088/14 "2009-01-06T17:03:50Z")
Did the ad say that the TV spots weren’t exactly positive. I saw the Dr. Phil and Tyra one. Mostly people were just like, WTF? Really? I find the idea completely repulsive. Yes, some people are going to cheat, but why make it acceptable and easy for them. Why doesn’t everyone see why marriages don’t last anymore? This is the kind of attitude that we have about “relationships” now! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-prude-ashley-madison-com/480088/15 "2009-01-06T17:08:09Z")
> [@corkboard](#): > > Does it make it any less unethical if the person isn’t married but is in a long-term exclusive relationship, and just wants a little something on the side without ending the relationship? I don’t know. Do the aforementioned herpes sores burn less? Besides, it’s no longer ‘exclusive’ if someone strays. It sort of smacks with laziness. ‘Too lazy to start an affair the old-fashioned way, at a local dive bar or with your company’s branch manager? Try the internet!’ I suppose there’s something alluring to would-be cheaters about the internet’s illusion of anonymity, but once your profile is up there, if and when you get caught, you can hardly use the ‘It just happened’ defense. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-prude-ashley-madison-com/480088/16 "2009-01-06T17:14:11Z")
> [@corkboard](#): > > Does it make it any less unethical if the person isn’t married but is in a long-term exclusive relationship, and just wants a little something on the side without ending the relationship? No. > [@Gwyen](#): > > Why doesn’t everyone see why marriages don’t last anymore? This is the kind of attitude that we have about “relationships” now! What’s this “we”, kemosabe? I see unanimously negative feelings about it here. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-prude-ashley-madison-com/480088/17 "2009-01-06T17:25:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > See, now, that’s the problem with you young whippersnappers. At common law, back in the day, we had the tort of _alienation of affection_, which is what is described here: a cause of action against a third party for action which leads to the dissolution of a marriage. The usual target was the spouse’s partner in adultery > […] > (I say “we had” only in the sense that this was what they claimed in school; I never saw such a claim in real life and this wasn’t my area of law anyway…) I don’t know if you meant “I never saw such a claim” to mean against the 3rd party in the marriage or against “other parties” but back in the '80s when my parents divorced, my mother’s attorney found such an “Alienation of Affection” law on the books in Illinois and used it to sue the woman my father was seeing. I can’t say how it would have held up in court since my father wound up giving up the house and car in return for my mother dropping the suit. To hear my mom speak of it, when the attorney filed the suit, the clerk was a bit surprised to learn such a law still existed and that anyone was using it. ---
**Author:** ![Atomicflea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@Atomicflea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomicflea)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-prude-ashley-madison-com/480088/18 "2009-01-06T17:38:08Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Okay, one, stretched all the way out into HypotheticalLand: if a person is brain dead but being kept “alive” on a respirator and feeding tube and is never ever going to get better and his/her spouse is lonely, I wouldn’t judge him/her for having a discrete affair. Much. I had this same thought. My mother had a friend whose husband was terminally ill with brain cancer, which turned him into a complete ass. He used to throw stuff at her and she had a hard time coping but didn’t want to put him in a home. She went to a support group and met someone whose wife was in a similar situation. They ended up having an affair, both the spouses died and I couldn’t help but to feel empathy for the horrible situation they were in. But neither paid for a hookup, per se. > [@corkboard](#): > > Does it make it any less unethical if the person isn’t married but is in a long-term exclusive relationship, and just wants a little something on the side without ending the relationship? Nope. Even if you’re gay and in a state that doesn’t recognize your union, or simply in a Brangelina-type partner situation, there is still a commitment that you are dishonoring unless you are open about your wishes and your partner accedes. It’s a breach of trust. > [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > It sort of smacks with laziness. ‘Too lazy to start an affair the old-fashioned way, at a local dive bar or with your company’s branch manager? Try the internet!’ I suppose there’s something alluring to would-be cheaters about the internet’s illusion of anonymity, but once your profile is up there, if and when you get caught, you can hardly use the ‘It just happened’ defense. Not only is it lazy, but it smacks of entitlement. “Not only do I want to cheat on my SO, but I want to make sure I am properly matched with the best adulterer possible, and guaranteed satisfaction and discretion!” ---
**Author:** ![Mahna\_Mahna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47c2d/32.png) [@Mahna\_Mahna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahna_Mahna)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-prude-ashley-madison-com/480088/19 "2009-01-06T17:39:56Z")
Wanna know what’s even funnier? Ashley Madison also airs commercials on TV during Cheaters. You know, that trainwreck of a show that makes its money by catching various trailer-trash dumbasses cheating on camera. …or… ummm… so I’ve heard. Because I wouldn’t be caught dead ever watching Cheaters, of course (or Jerry Springer, or any other trashy early '00s talk TV for that matter). ---
**Author:** ![Atomicflea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@Atomicflea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomicflea)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-prude-ashley-madison-com/480088/20 "2009-01-06T17:43:19Z")
> [@Mahna\_Mahna](#): > > Wanna know what’s even funnier? Ashley Madison also airs commercials on TV during Cheaters. You know, that trainwreck of a show that makes its money by catching various trailer-trash dumbasses cheating on camera. I blame the economy. :smack: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-prude-ashley-madison-com/480088.md?page=2)