# Am I a Republican or a Democrat? I really cannot tell ... **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 20, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315 "2012-09-20T21:06:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315/41 "2012-09-22T01:13:17Z")
> [@SillyBean](#): > > It’s very interesting that you would immediately assume the very basic principles I outlined above would result in prison for uneducated children, when the current system seems to already be doing just that … ? Aren’t nearly 25% of Americans, at any given time, incarcerated and an even higher percent are in some phase of the criminial justice system? 25% of Americans are incarcerated? Are you kidding? The true number is about 0.7%. And that’s just the start of why I think you’re ideas are so wrong-headed. Basically, you have a very distorted picture of what the great majority of children are doing now, and what they end up doing when they grow up. Most children are doing well, and grow up to be fine adults. ---
**Author:** ![SillyBean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@SillyBean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SillyBean)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315/42 "2012-09-22T01:21:25Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > 25% of Americans are incarcerated? Are you kidding? The true number is about 0.7%. > > And that’s just the start of why I think you’re ideas are so wrong-headed. Basically, you have a very distorted picture of what the great majority of children are doing now, and what they end up doing when they grow up. Most children are doing well, and grow up to be fine adults. From Wikipedia: In 2008 approximately one in every 31 adults (7.3 million) in the United States was behind bars, or being monitored (probation and parole). Also, I don’t think it’s any secret that American has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world. So, I didn’t have the exact percent right. I was estimating… With actual facts in hand, I can say that 1 in every 31 of your publically educated members of the population don’t do all that well. ---
**Author:** ![cutman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@cutman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cutman74)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315/43 "2012-09-22T01:23:13Z")
First of all, my expenses are cut to the bone. Second, what I did with the extra money I made when I was reasonably prosperous was purchase my house. I own it outright. Thirdly, where did the rest of your education come from? Its nice that you were able to benefit from private school for a time, but if you had any public schooling, you have reaped the benefits of others paying your way. I don’t know where you live, but the streets you drive on are paid for with gas taxes collected by people who drive cars, not ride bikes. Besides, I work from 40 - 65 miles from where I live. I am also required to use my vehicle for work ( with a small stipend provided by my employer.) I am not claiming that I am the only one who “deserves” the assistance I receive. I am just not oblivious to the fact that everyone who contributes also reaps the benefits. As for taxes, I’m sure you are well aware of things like sales tax, payroll tax, property tax and the like. As a matter of fact, since I am required to spend every dime I make on survival, I am taxed in one way or another on 100% percent of my income. If I were in a position to put any of that away, which believe me I am not, this is money I would not be taxed on. This is why people are given exemptions on their income tax. We are taxed in other places already. Surely you would not be in favor of taxing people twice on the same income? I apologize for hijacking this thread which was about the political party you belong to, but your position that holds everyone that benefits from government expenditures as below you, especially disregarding the fact that their circumstances may have changed, is offensive to me. And by the way “you didn’t build that”, We all did. ---
**Author:** ![SillyBean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@SillyBean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SillyBean)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315/44 "2012-09-22T01:29:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I have to disagree with this (and I’m speaking as a single guy with no children so I get nothing personally out of the public education system). A well educated population is one of the main things that separates a first world country from a third world country. Throwing out our free public education system and hoping that parents will pick up the slack is a bad idea. > > Is public education insolvent? Of course it is. Who ever came up with the idiotic claim that schools should make a profit? You don’t propose closing down public services like schools or the police department of the fire department because they’re not making money. They’re not profit makers - they’re public services you pay because they make society a better place to live in. > > If you think these services aren’t worth paying for, take a look at the countries that don’t have them. Are they places you want to live in? Are they places you want to turn America into? While I do not contend that schools themselves should make a profit, the system should “net out” at some point and the current one does not. I’ve never proposed closing down anything. I’d rather not look at other undesirable places. I want to look to the future and aspire to greatness … I advocate that our contry as a whole and individuals’ lives cash flow. I advocate that people not have children they are not financially prepared to (competitively) provide for in every sense of the word. I advocate an ownership society wherein individuals save up and pay cash for things so that such a large chunk of the household budget does not go towards debt service. I not only advocate these principles, I live them and I share them. I’m not a monster and I’m not alone in this line of thinking. I’m simply pointing out that the current system does not work and is geared toward instability and will never net out so it should probably be replaced. I’ve said I do not know how the transition from publicly funded education to parents taking responsibility for their own children will work. I’m open to suggestions and think there should be more dialogue about it. Just because it may be hard to implement, doesn’t make the status quo any more “right.” ---
**Author:** ![SillyBean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@SillyBean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SillyBean)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315/45 "2012-09-22T01:43:44Z")
> [@cutman74](#): > > First of all, my expenses are cut to the bone. Second, what I did with the extra money I made when I was reasonably prosperous was purchase my house. I own it outright. Thirdly, where did the rest of your education come from? Its nice that you were able to benefit from private school for a time, but if you had any public schooling, you have reaped the benefits of others paying your way. I don’t know where you live, but the streets you drive on are paid for with gas taxes collected by people who drive cars, not ride bikes. Besides, I work from 40 - 65 miles from where I live. I am also required to use my vehicle for work ( with a small stipend provided by my employer.) I am not claiming that I am the only one who “deserves” the assistance I receive. I am just not oblivious to the fact that everyone who contributes also reaps the benefits. As for taxes, I’m sure you are well aware of things like sales tax, payroll tax, property tax and the like. As a matter of fact, since I am required to spend every dime I make on survival, I am taxed in one way or another on 100% percent of my income. If I were in a position to put any of that away, which believe me I am not, this is money I would not be taxed on. This is why people are given exemptions on their income tax. We are taxed in other places already. Surely you would not be in favor of taxing people twice on the same income? I apologize for hijacking this thread which was about the political party you belong to, but your position that holds everyone that benefits from government expenditures as below you, especially disregarding the fact that their circumstances may have changed, is offensive to me. And by the way “you didn’t build that”, We all did. I’m sorry you are offended. I’m getting a tad offended that I am forced to contribute to government programs that I neither believe in or believe are truly helpful. Everyone is “taxed on other places already” but the IRS allows people with children to keep more of their “take home” money, simply because they chose to have children. What if, instead of having kids, I want to keep more of my money and spend it on retirement, charities of my choice, etc? I guess I’m further offended by the notion that I deserve less of my own money becuase I have been judicious when it comes to chosing not to contribute to the 9B population. So, we can both sit here offended. Meanwhile, even though I live by a very strict budget and have made a lot of really good decisions (thank God), I still have to fork over chucnks of my income at extortion rates. There’s a girl in my office who has a lower salary than I do but takes home more of her money because she has 2 kids. I save my money, she saves nothing and has cable. I think the current system is unfair and doesn’t promote an ownership society and savings … You don’t have to agree with me. My principles stand on their very own. ---
**Author:** ![SillyBean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@SillyBean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SillyBean)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315/46 "2012-09-22T01:47:54Z")
> [@cutman74](#): > > First of all, my expenses are cut to the bone. Second, what I did with the extra money I made when I was reasonably prosperous was purchase my house. I own it outright. Thirdly, where did the rest of your education come from? Its nice that you were able to benefit from private school for a time, but if you had any public schooling, you have reaped the benefits of others paying your way. I don’t know where you live, but the streets you drive on are paid for with gas taxes collected by people who drive cars, not ride bikes. Besides, I work from 40 - 65 miles from where I live. I am also required to use my vehicle for work ( with a small stipend provided by my employer.) I am not claiming that I am the only one who “deserves” the assistance I receive. I am just not oblivious to the fact that everyone who contributes also reaps the benefits. As for taxes, I’m sure you are well aware of things like sales tax, payroll tax, property tax and the like. As a matter of fact, since I am required to spend every dime I make on survival, I am taxed in one way or another on 100% percent of my income. If I were in a position to put any of that away, which believe me I am not, this is money I would not be taxed on. This is why people are given exemptions on their income tax. We are taxed in other places already. Surely you would not be in favor of taxing people twice on the same income? I apologize for hijacking this thread which was about the political party you belong to, but your position that holds everyone that benefits from government expenditures as below you, especially disregarding the fact that their circumstances may have changed, is offensive to me. And by the way “you didn’t build that”, We all did. By the way, I have to say it raises a bit of ire in me to know that you are sitting on a house at cash value (since you own it outright) and turn to the public coffers for assistance before selling that asset and getting into a cheaper place. Hmmm. ---
**Author:** ![cutman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@cutman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cutman74)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315/47 "2012-09-22T02:25:32Z")
Hmm, sitting on it? Would you like to buy it? If not, how about I just live there with my family, and pay no rent. It isn’t my fault you didn’t purchase a house instead of spending your money on whatever frivolous thing you spent yours on, like bicycles or something. Would it be more fiscally responsible for me to rent and pay a house payment out of my meager salary than to eliminate a bill from my budget? I think that in my position the prudent thing for me to do was pay my house off while I could afford it. It is not a big house, two and a half bedrooms, low property taxes, no I think it would be stupid and the opposite of responsible for me to sell it for a one time, lump sum of money. The fact is that tax exemptions are reimbursements to people for monies already spent on taxes in other places. I know it must be hard to understand, considering how the idea that people of my ilk owning a house or reproducing offends you, but the facts are, I pay school fees, I pay for their transportation, I pay for their clothes, shelter, and food and for you to say ,“you shouldn’t have had them” Maybe you should move to a country where everyone fends for themselves. I can only think of a few. If you can show me a place where there is a libertarian utopia, perhaps I may subscribe to your newsletter. As this is not the topic of the original post and I would hate to get off subject, we could conduct this conversation elsewhere, if you feel like it. I’m going to bed for tonight though. ---
**Author:** ![SillyBean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@SillyBean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SillyBean)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315/48 "2012-09-22T02:52:25Z")
> [@cutman74](#): > > Hmm, sitting on it? Would you like to buy it? If not, how about I just live there with my family, and pay no rent. It isn’t my fault you didn’t purchase a house instead of spending your money on whatever frivolous thing you spent yours on, like bicycles or something. Would it be more fiscally responsible for me to rent and pay a house payment out of my meager salary than to eliminate a bill from my budget? I think that in my position the prudent thing for me to do was pay my house off while I could afford it. It is not a big house, two and a half bedrooms, low property taxes, no I think it would be stupid and the opposite of responsible for me to sell it for a one time, lump sum of money. The fact is that tax exemptions are reimbursements to people for monies already spent on taxes in other places. I know it must be hard to understand, considering how the idea that people of my ilk owning a house or reproducing offends you, but the facts are, I pay school fees, I pay for their transportation, I pay for their clothes, shelter, and food and for you to say ,“you shouldn’t have had them” Maybe you should move to a country where everyone fends for themselves. I can only think of a few. If you can show me a place where there is a libertarian utopia, perhaps I may subscribe to your newsletter. As this is not the topic of the original post and I would hate to get off subject, we could conduct this conversation elsewhere, if you feel like it. I’m going to bed for tonight though. Well sir, I’m only 32. My money has been spent on my education. I’ll soon have my Masters - paid for in cash as I go. My car is also paid for. By the time I’m 40, I’ll have well over $200K in pesonal savings and a paid for home, not including the nearly $100K in cash I’ll have invested in my 401K. I spent $60 on my bike, purchased used off of Craigslist. Nothing I have done is extraordinary… just running the numbers before I make a move, that’s all. Furthermore, I don’t mind anyone reproducing. In fact, as a Libertarian, don’t I support personal freedom to do as you please? I do think some people leap before they look onto the kid train - which is fine - I just don’t personally believe I should help pick up the tab. Afterall, I chose not to leap. Everyone had the choice not to leap… the same as myself. There’s nothing I’ve done that anyone else in America is incapable of. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315/49 "2012-09-22T03:18:40Z")
> [@SillyBean](#): > > While I do not contend that schools themselves should make a profit, the system should “net out” at some point and the current one does not. Netting out is making a profit. So schools will never net out because that’s not their purpose. How about the other examples I gave? Do you expect the police department to make a profit at some point? The fire department? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315/50 "2012-09-22T03:25:01Z")
> [@SillyBean](#): > > So, I didn’t have the exact percent right. I was estimating… You said 25% of Americans are incarcerated and the actual figure is less than one percent. That’s not getting the exact percentage wrong. That’s evidence that you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315/51 "2012-09-22T03:51:00Z")
> [@SillyBean](#): > > So, I didn’t have the exact percent right. I was estimating… I have to say, this is pretty fucking awesome. From 1 in 4 to 1 in 31 and an “uh, I don’t have the exact percent right.” Um, yeah. No shit. You were nearly an order of freaking magnitude off. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315/52 "2012-09-22T03:53:01Z")
> [@SillyBean](#): > > “Could one of the possible reasons that healthcare is so unaffordable be that we pay Drs. upwards of $500 for 30 minute jobs they are 15 minutes late for where the assistant does most of the work?” hmmmm… to be continued. This is pretty far off the mark. PCPs genereally charge between 50-200 for an annual physical. A doctor being paid $500 for a visit is pretty rare unless they are specialists, and/or doing a lot of tests. > [@SillyBean](#): > > If we were in a cash only ownership society and a family on street X wanted to sell his house, but the average buyer only had $100K in cash to spend on a house, he would not price it above what can actually be spent. If a bank comes along and says give me your $100K and I’ll finance the other $100K for you so you can pay $200K for a house - the seller will jack up his prices to what is possible. Again, this is largely incorrect. Yes, leverage enables people to buy things they may not be able to buy at a given time, but that doesn’t mean someone will sell 200k worth or materials, land, etc. for 100k just because people don’t have money. What will happen is that people will live in one-room shacks or shantytowns. Nobody is gonna sell their mansion for a pittance because buyers don’t want to go into debt. Either way, you have a fundamental misunderstanding about debt and finance. Debt is good in many cases. Debt can allow for growth and prosperity. Yes, it can be bad in some circumstances, but your idea that a credit-less society is better is hopelessly naive. Do you insist that your boss pay you what he owes you on a hourly basis? If not, they you are engaging in the exact same practice on a smaller level. Your boss says, work now and I will pay you later. People do the same exact thing with houses, it’s just over a longer time period. > [@SillyBean](#): > > It’s much more practical than buying a house you cannot afford at 10-20% interest which means you actually end up paying even more for a house you already could not afford… Mortgage interest rates haven’t been anywhere near that high in like 35 years. They are hovering around 4% right now, not 10-20%. I honestly don’t know how you could be so far off the mark on something you are paying any attention to. > [@SillyBean](#): > > …I don’t think there’s any one system or policy that even has the potential to work for all 9B people on Earth, do you? The global population is around 7 billion, not 9. > [@SillyBean](#): > > Aren’t nearly 25% of Americans, at any given time, incarcerated and an even higher percent are in some phase of the criminial justice system? I see someone already addressed this, but this is off by an astounding amount. A curious and laughably large amount. Honestly, how does something like this happen? It’s like meeting an old person, and guessing they were 200 years old. A society where 25% of people are locked up at any given time could not function. > [@SillyBean](#): > > For every 100 people, just know that (statistically speaking) there will be a few (17% to be exact) born with some form of mental illness that makes them potentially dangerous. This is also incorrect. Even if you go by a strict definition of mentally ill, the overwhelming majority of those people are not dangerous. Honestly, you are so far off the mark with nearly every claim you have made that it makes me wonder if your mindbogglingly stupid, disparate, and logically inconsistent views are the result of you having the wrong facts, or an inability to comprehend basic things. And I don’t just say that because I find your views utterly nonsensical; it’s because I don’t see how a reasonably intelligent person could be so hopelessly misinformed. ---
**Author:** ![Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ce7236/32.png) [@Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mona_Lisa_Simpson)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315/53 "2012-09-22T15:51:10Z")
She “almost” has her Master’s degree. Lets hope it is not in math, statistics, economics, political science, sociology, criminology, or psychology. Or education. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315/54 "2012-09-22T16:01:34Z")
This is why the OP believes taxes need to be cut. Because the average American is being taxed 113% of their income. Except for people with children - they get to claim a six million dollar deduction for each kid they have. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315/55 "2012-09-22T16:28:34Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > This is why the OP believes taxes need to be cut. Because the average American is being taxed 113% of their income. Except for people with children - they get to claim a six million dollar deduction for each kid they have. And those kids will all grow up to be criminals anyway, so why should we support them? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315/56 "2012-09-22T17:48:41Z")
> [@SillyBean](#): > > I’m concerned that you think 1. saving up cash for things and chosing not to participate in consumer lending, 2. living below your means, 3. controling the rate at which you have children are some kind of extraordinary feats. They aren’t. It’s just plain ole common sense and practicality. > [@SillyBean](#): > > So, I didn’t have the exact percent right. I was estimating… With actual facts in hand, I can say that 1 in every 31 of your publically educated members of the population don’t do all that well. What truly amazes me here is that you have the typical libertarian view that everyone should just naturally always act with complete practicality and rationality and do nothing but make sensible informed decisions. Then when you are presented with evidence that one of your opinions was _not_ well-informed, you are not only completely unrepentant about it, but you still assume you’re smarter than publicly-educated people, and you can’t link the two together to the possibility that maybe other people don’t have all the information they need to be sensible and practical _and that it’s not necessarily their fault_. It’s the same tired story I see in every rightwinger who lacks any kind of empathy. “It’s all right when _I_ do it, but not when _anyone else_ does it.” ---
**Author:** ![SillyBean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@SillyBean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SillyBean)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315/57 "2012-09-22T22:02:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Netting out is making a profit. So schools will never net out because that’s not their purpose. > > How about the other examples I gave? Do you expect the police department to make a profit at some point? The fire department? Hmmmm… seems I’m not conveying my ideas clearly. I think the system as a whole (overall) should net out. I think the government, as a tax funded entity, should maintain infrastructure, parks, libraries, police, fire, and rescue. From my understanding, the tax contributions from citizens to keep these funded would be very reasonable. I would consider getting those services for the tax it costs “netting out” whether they make a traditional cash profit isn’t my point … I’m getting what I pay for, I don’t feel like I’m sinking a ton of money into a black hole that goes nowhere. I feel differently about the educational system… this system requires extortion rate property tax payments from citizens (some on fixed incomes) at an ever increasing rate to try and fill in an educational funding hole that is getting increasingly deeper. What’s feeding this hole is the principle of “please have as many children as you like, the state will pay to educate each one of them, we’ll get the money from somewhere” doesn’t net out. It requires an ever increasing amount of money to be syphened off the unwilling to fill an ever increasing hole created by those who may not even be burdened by the funding required to sustain it. In my mind, this doesn’t net out and is completely unfair. I hope that explains it a little better. ---
**Author:** ![SillyBean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@SillyBean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SillyBean)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315/58 "2012-09-22T22:06:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You said 25% of Americans are incarcerated and the actual figure is less than one percent. That’s not getting the exact percentage wrong. That’s evidence that you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about. Okay, beat me over the head for getting a stat completely wrong. Take your time … Done yet? I went on the hunt for the “thing” I read that made me regurgitate that stat on the fly in casual posting. Apparently, I misinterpreted the stat that “Americans represent 5% of the world population but 25% of the world’s prisoners.” I apologize for misquoting and misrepresenting. It’s still a sobering stat. I still believe the American educational system is fatally flawed and is only doomed. Hey, you don’t have to agree at all! And let’s face it, it’s not like there’s anything I can really do except live and vote my values. I still have to pay taxes to provide a sub par education to every little gem produced here in the US of A - whether I agree with their existence or not. So … what else ya got? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315/59 "2012-09-22T22:09:13Z")
Going back to the original OP, are you a Republican or a Democrat. I’d say I can understand your confusion. You seem to be wrong about pretty much every single statistic, figure or fact that you quote, and seem to be unable or unwilling to even look these up. (25% of Americans are incarcerated? This is mind-bogglingly uninformed.) So, I can see where you likely are similarly misinformed about what each political party stands for. My advice is that you do not vote. For anything. Ever. ---
**Author:** ![SillyBean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@SillyBean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SillyBean)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315/60 "2012-09-22T22:23:08Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > This is pretty far off the mark. PCPs genereally charge between 50-200 for an annual physical. A doctor being paid $500 for a visit is pretty rare unless they are specialists, and/or doing a lot of tests. > > Again, this is largely incorrect. Yes, leverage enables people to buy things they may not be able to buy at a given time, but that doesn’t mean someone will sell 200k worth or materials, land, etc. for 100k just because people don’t have money. What will happen is that people will live in one-room shacks or shantytowns. Nobody is gonna sell their mansion for a pittance because buyers don’t want to go into debt. Either way, you have a fundamental misunderstanding about debt and finance. Debt is good in many cases. Debt can allow for growth and prosperity. Yes, it can be bad in some circumstances, but your idea that a credit-less society is better is hopelessly naive. Do you insist that your boss pay you what he owes you on a hourly basis? If not, they you are engaging in the exact same practice on a smaller level. Your boss says, work now and I will pay you later. People do the same exact thing with houses, it’s just over a longer time period. > > Mortgage interest rates haven’t been anywhere near that high in like 35 years. They are hovering around 4% right now, not 10-20%. I honestly don’t know how you could be so far off the mark on something you are paying any attention to. > > The global population is around 7 billion, not 9. > > I see someone already addressed this, but this is off by an astounding amount. A curious and laughably large amount. Honestly, how does something like this happen? It’s like meeting an old person, and guessing they were 200 years old. A society where 25% of people are locked up at any given time could not function. > > This is also incorrect. Even if you go by a strict definition of mentally ill, the overwhelming majority of those people are not dangerous. > > Honestly, you are so far off the mark with nearly every claim you have made that it makes me wonder if your mindbogglingly stupid, disparate, and logically inconsistent views are the result of you having the wrong facts, or an inability to comprehend basic things. And I don’t just say that because I find your views utterly nonsensical; it’s because I don’t see how a reasonably intelligent person could be so hopelessly misinformed. Fact: You finance things and you run the risk of paying 10 to 20% more for them in the form of interest, finance charges, late fees, origination fees, escrow fees, etc. Shall I go on? I work in the finance game … Don’t talk to me about how much things cost via financing them. I create amortization schedules every \_ single \_ day. Your right, the world population (the last time figures were published) was at around 7 billion and climbing. Most of my ideas look at implications and extrapolations of “what will be” and I thought I typically said or at least meant to say “approaching 9B” because we will be there all too soon enough and it’s time to start looking at the reality we are very clearly headed towards. Whether it’s 6 billion or 9 billion, it’s approaching or already at (some might say) critical mass … Fact: The more people you have = the more crazy people you have. It’s just a fact that a certain % of the population is mentally ill/handicapped and as you increase that population an ever higher number (a % of the total) will appear. 17% of 100 people = 17. 17% of 9, excuse me 7B = X. Simple math. Hey, you don’t have to agree with me! My principles stand on their own and are gaining an ever increasing amount of followers… My basic ideals/beliefs are very much commons sense, and just all around good for people in general. The good news is, you are free to have as many children as you like, finance everything straight up to your eyebrows, and collect all the gov benefits you are eligible for! I don’t have to believe in it or like it is all, and I dont. Again, what I believe: People should hold off having kids until they can completely afford to educate, clothe, entertain, and feed them 100%. It’s the only way I would ever have kids but being financially prepared doesn’t stop a lot of people… You don’t see me calling them stupid, or you stupid for thinking this is ok. The gov should exists to protect it’s citizens from outside forces and harm and to maintain infrastructure that services the collective. It should not be in the business of redistributing wealth, educating, indoctrinating religion, or defining marriages or families. Families should be free to educate and raise their own kids however they see fit. People should save up and pay cash for things. This means you have to say “no” now to the big house, the kids, the fancy car so that you can save up and pay cash for those things later… Do I think people should be executed for breaking this rule, heck no! I don’t think I should be required to fork over part of my paycheck to help dig them out of this hole should they decide to burry themselves in one. Get mad, call me stupid, whatever. It changes nothing. My common sense approach to life has turned out to be very beneficial to me. I think it could work for a lot of other people as well, but to get that ball rolling this whole “the state will take care of it” mentality has got to go. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-a-republican-or-a-democrat-i-really-cannot-tell/635315.md?page=4)