# Am I an asshole to use the words "infantilize" and "obscurantist"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 5, 2008, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291 "2008-11-05T16:59:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291/21 "2008-11-05T18:55:28Z")
I work in a very blue-collar industry, and while many of my co-workers are highly intelligent, most are not college educated. I have a somewhat large vocabulary, and I am often given the deer-in-the-headlights look. If I catch it, I just try and quickly rephrase, but often I’ll just have to let it go and keep moving. I’ve been called an asshole, a douchebag, and stuck-up. At my job, this is pretty mild language, but I have seen a few actually resent me and then actively foment trouble. Frankly, I think your sister is uptight, perhaps not as well-educated as she usually thinks she is, and she should back off your sesquipedalian tendencies. English is an incredibly rich language, and those of who can wield words well should do so without fear of recrimination. > [@Robert Frost](#): > > Half the world is composed of people who have something to say and can’t, and the other half who have nothing to say and keep on saying it. Good on you for being able to say what you have to say, I say. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291/22 "2008-11-05T19:35:45Z")
Before reading the OP I had no idea what either word meant. “Infantilize” was simple enough to understand. I immediately knew what it meant after reading it. Just to make sure, I confirmed by checking the dictionary. I had no idea what “obscurantist” meant though. A simple search in the dictionary solved that problem. I can understand limiting the use of “big words” in the workplace but there is no reason you should dumb yourself down elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291/23 "2008-11-05T19:51:09Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Or, for that matter, an intellectual snob. > But my sister seems to think I should remove certain 50-dollar words from my vocabulary. > > Thoughts? An asshole? Definitely not. But intellectually you should know your audience. I’ve never heard the word you mentioned before but it’s root word was obvious enough to figure out. Maybe if you thought in terms of William F. Buckley you might get some perspective. He was capable of using a lot of big words but he also spoke multiple languages. English was NOT his first language. He obviously enjoyed using his considerable vocabulary. I would imagine he used it to communicate as well as to project a scholarly image. I think it’s only human nature to put your best foot forward. So be nice to your sister, she loves you for who you are. ---
**Author:** ![Influential\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Influential\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Influential_Panda)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291/24 "2008-11-05T20:02:48Z")
Presumably, you’re talking not just to hear your own voice but to have the other person understand what you’re saying. There’s a difference between talking and communicating, and if you know that your word choice may cause some difficulty but use it anyway, you’re not communicating, you’re giving a show. Which is kind of a dick thing to do. It’s not what you say that matters, it’s what people hear. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291/25 "2008-11-05T21:17:01Z")
Not an arsehole, just meretriciously obnebulatory. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291/26 "2008-11-05T21:43:04Z")
I knew “infantilize” and have used it. I’ve never used obscurantist, nor heard it. I see “obscure” nestled in there, so I presume the church is “hiding something”. I’d ditch that word if I were you. There’s dumbing down, and then there’s communicating clearly. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291/27 "2008-11-05T21:48:05Z")
“Obscurantist” certainly sounds to me like a word trotted out to make the speaker sound smart. It may have no common synonym, but I’d think it really, really obvious most people don’t know the word and seem able to discuss related issues without using it. I’m a reasonably smart guy with words and have a university education, and I’d never before seen or heard the word “obscurantist” used in any context. I wouldn’t actually suggest your sister was right to criticize you, but it would strike me as an effort to show off, not an effort to communicate. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291/28 "2008-11-05T21:51:47Z")
I think **CookingWithGas** ’s point is an important one. “It is essential to speak to the level of your audience.” Having a large vocabulary is great, but knowing when and how to address the listener with it is more important. And in a lot of instances bringing yourself “down” to the level of your listener is a greater skill. The job of an effective communicator is to get their point across to the listener. You may have the most extensive intellectual vocabulary out there but if you missed your audience it makes you a failed communicator no matter how proper your words were. And in reality what other purpose does a vocabulary serve but to communicate? That’s why IT help desk people who can spout technical jargon all day are a dime a dozen. But one who can speak to the masses of common folk at their level is priceless. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291/29 "2008-11-05T22:06:00Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > I think **CookingWithGas** ’s point is an important one. > > “It is essential to speak to the level of your audience.” The thing is, though, that I was talking to a woman with a GRADUATE DEGREE in sociology (or whatever her degree is in–something liberal artsy that required a dissertation.) I dont throw obscurantist around the water cooler at work. (Though I might hit one of my SAT tutorial students with it one day, just to see what happens.) I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect that she’d know it–and, in fact, she did. Though part of her vexation probably came from the fact that I was criticizing her church. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291/30 "2008-11-05T22:16:25Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > The specific sentence was something along the lines of “Your bishop’s repeated propounding of the need to teach creationism in the public schools is typical of the obscurantist bent of the entire COGIC church. Plus the hats frighten me.” You wouldn’t say that about the Latvian Orthodox faith: Father-priest 2: Is there one aspect of the faith that you find particularly attractive? George: I think the hats. Anyhoo, you’re not an asshole for using the words that mean what you want to say. I have a friend who’s an Ivy League grad and doesn’t know things I would consider basic. I don’t dumb it down, since she can ask for clarification if she needs to (and has). ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291/31 "2008-11-05T22:22:57Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > You wouldn’t say that about the Latvian Orthodox faith: > > Father-priest 2: Is there one aspect of the faith that you find particularly attractive? > > George: I think the hats. > Anyhoo, you’re not an asshole for using the words that mean what you want to say. I have a friend who’s an Ivy League grad and doesn’t know things I would consider basic. I don’t dumb it down, since she can ask for clarification if she needs to (and has). You’re such a Yankee sometimes, love. 😃 Clearly you’ve never seen the monstrosities of headgear to which I allude. [Here](http://media.commercialappeal.com/mca/content/img/photos/2007/11/08/9COGIC13.jpeg) [are](http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/14750000/14756917.JPG) [a](http://nineteen69.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/church-hat.jpg) [few](http://blog.mlive.com/grpress/2008/07/large_Church-Hats-abney.jpg) of the sort I mean. Warning: while all these links are work-safe, you should nevertheless forebearto open them until you have brain bleach close at hand. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291/32 "2008-11-05T22:36:31Z")
> [@teela\_brown](#): > > This thread reminds me of the recent post by another Doper, who used the word “gerrymander” at the office and was accused by his boss of making the word up. Said boss refused to be assured by all the other workers who told him that it was indeed a word, and looked it up in the dictionary. Of course, he found it, and found that it meant just was out Doper said it meant, but he forbade the Doper from using it ever again because he had never heard of it before. The way I remember his story, he used gerrymander so creatively that you could say, as I do, that he used it wrong. I’m in favor of not dumbing down your vocabularly. A pox on anyone who chides you for using words correctly instead of just looking them up and building their own vocabulary. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291/33 "2008-11-05T22:39:55Z")
Ah yes, I’ve been there, seen that. I thought you meant headgear worn by the officiants. Not that I’m one to talk! [http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00409/POPE\_280\_409662a.jpg](http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00409/POPE_280_409662a.jpg) When my brother was in the hospital at NYU, there were a number of gentlemen in the waiting room wearing these [http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/7254/800pxrabbiungerandrabbizv1.jpg](http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/7254/800pxrabbiungerandrabbizv1.jpg) My parents and I look at one another and in unison mouth “I think the hats”. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291/34 "2008-11-05T22:40:57Z")
**Skald** , admit it: you say those words while imitating William F. Buckley Jr., and _that’s_ what makes you an asshole. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291/35 "2008-11-05T22:45:03Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > **Skald** , admit it: you say those words while imitating William F. Buckley Jr., and _that’s_ what makes you an asshole. 😃 Fool of a Took! My repeated claims that I am a super-villain, along with my habit of typing “Fool of a Took!” given the slightest excuse in a thread, are what make me an asshole. I learned “obscurantist” from The West Wing; I was utterly delighted to be sent to the dictionary by a television show. My gratitude to Aaron Sorkin for doing that is why I shall make sure that he is spared in the coming purge; Jerry Bruckheimer will be executed in his place. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291/36 "2008-11-05T22:47:27Z")
> [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](#): > > A pox on anyone who chides you for using words correctly instead of just looking them up and building their own vocabulary. A real pox or a faux pox? I’m with the majority here. \*Infantalize \*is a perfectly fine word, \*obscurantist \*is not in quotidian use. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291/37 "2008-11-05T22:49:04Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > A real pox or a faux pox? > > I’m with the majority here. \*Infantalize \*is a perfectly fine word, \*obscurantist \*is not in quotidian use. Are you using quotidian ironically? ---
**Author:** ![Rack-a-Bones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rack-a-Bones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rack-a-Bones)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291/38 "2008-11-05T23:41:32Z")
**Skald** , why must you be so abstruse? I’m with the people saying no reason to not use big words unless you know you are speaking to an audience that will not understand them. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291/39 "2008-11-05T23:55:54Z")
There are plenty of people who have great short term memories and can connect the dots. They come out of college with a degree and just never really retain much of the cornucopia of knowledge that was laid before them. May not be important to them. Or they’re just not built that way. No fault to them. But someone whose brain is a storehouse of knowledge that they’re willing to share should only be highly respected. The folks I can’t put up with are those who can’t admit to their own limitations and slight those who could enhance their own experience. Adjusting one’s speech seems manipulative and appropriate for ambassadors and salesmen. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291/40 "2008-11-06T01:53:46Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > When my brother was in the hospital at NYU, there were a number of gentlemen in the waiting room wearing these > > [ImageShack - Best place for all of your image hosting and image sharing needs](http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/7254/800pxrabbiungerandrabbizv1.jpg) > > My parents and I look at one another and in unison mouth “I think the hats”. \What strikes _me_ most about those hats is what must be the incredible difficulty of breeding cylindrical ferrets.\ > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Are you using quotidian ironically? Hey, it’s a perfectly cromulent word. One that should be used more commonly. Perhaps even on an every day basis. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-an-asshole-to-use-the-words-infantilize-and-obscurantist/471291.md?page=3)