# Am I being unreasonable? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 4, 2005, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-being-unreasonable/324678 "2005-10-04T01:31:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wizz-Bang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/edb3f5/32.png) [@Wizz-Bang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wizz-Bang)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-being-unreasonable/324678/1 "2005-10-04T01:31:59Z")
I’d like some opinions on whether I am being unreasonable here or not. I believe that I am getting a raw deal at work and have complained. I sent this to our internal anonymous complaints area. I think it is self explanatory. > [@](#): > > My team is required to provide after hours support for various databases throughout the [company] group. > > My concern is that different people are provided with different infrastructure for providing this support, causing the support to be more of a financial burden to some than others. I believe that this is discriminatory. > > Specifically my concern is about the telephone lines required to dial-in to the [company] network. Employees need to have a second telephone line at home in addition to their own private line, as we can be required to be on-line for hours at a time, or at short notice, which is not always possible with only one line which may be in use for private purposes, or by other members of the household. > > Some of the employees in my group are provided with a second telephone line paid for entirely by [company] including installation, line rental and call costs. The employee never receives a telephone bill. These employees have no out-of-pocket expenses. > > Other employees are required to install a second telephone line at their own expense, but can have some or all of the costs reimbursed. The employee receives a telephone bill and must apply to [company] for reimbursement. Reimbursement can take months and is not guaranteed. The employee is out of pocket for time taken for the reimbursement, if not permanently. > > Finally, some employees are not provided with a second telephone line, or reimbursed for the cost of installing one, or the line rental. It is not clear whether these employees will be reimbursed for individual calls to the [company] network. These employees are permanently out of pocket for the cost of installing and maintaining a second telephone line and may be out of pocket for calls as well. > > We have been told that it is not necessary to install a second line to do the support work required, and while this may be strictly true, it is simply not practical. If our private telephone line is being used for [company] work we, and other people who do not work for [company] but live in our homes, cannot use our own telephone line and may miss important, or emergency calls. > > I have spoken to my manager about my concerns and, while he understands them, he advises that the decision to make things more equitable is not his to make. It is my understanding that he has been advised by his superiors that they are not willing to do anything. I then waited for weeks… And then I received this reply: > [@](#): > > Sorry for the delay. > > Based on the information you provided I can confirm that there had been a policy of authorising the installation of a second line some 18 months or so ago for a number of IT employees. This was essentially a business practice and not a [company] or IT “policy” as such. That is, policies are guidelines and businesses are able to provide employees with over and above what these policies provide for (although this is discouraged). > > In saying this, that practice is now being “grandfathered” out, so there will no be any further approvals of additional phone lines within the [company] group ([company] will continue to honour the agreements reached at that time for those individuals, but as circumstances change, this practice will cease). Policies or benefits that are “grandfathered” are not considered by [company] to be discriminatory. > > As to ongoing situation, [company] does have a policy of reimbursing employees for costs associated with doing [company] business, and I have confirmed with your business that you are entitled to any phone call costs incurred as a result of you having to dial up/make work phone calls. We ask that you keep a log of these and present them with your phone account at appropriate intervals. I have advised your business that the tardiness or non receipt of reimbursements is not satisfactory, and needs to be done in a timely manner. They have confirmed that this will occur. > > As to your issue of work dial ups precluding you from receiving potentially emergency calls, or allowing other members of your family access to the home phone, IT nor [company] has a particular policy here. I have spoken to [Senior Manager] as to the incidence of this and she has indicated that it varies from individual to individual. I understand that most people will have a mobile phone for phone calls, and that they will use their home phone line for any dial up situation. Again [Senior Manager] has confirmed that depending on the matter being addressed and the length of time an individual is required to stay on line varies, again from individual to individual. In order for us to progress this issue and be able to track your usage, we would ask that you keep a log of the incidence of time you are required to log in ie. the time of day (or night), the length of time, the frequency, and the matter itself, for a 3 month period. Obviously, if you have a particularly high incidence of usage, we will be happy to review monthly. At the end of that 3 month period, we will have data on your usage and again we will be prepared to both pay your calls, as well reimburse you a pro rata percentage of your home line rental. > > Given that you and I had originally discussed the fact that I would need to raise this issue with the head of your business, [Senior Manager], I will need to let her know the above arrangement and your details. Please confirm that you are happy for me to do so. I don’t think that this response is good enough. The first problem is the quote that “Policies or benefits that are “grandfathered” are not considered by [company] to be discriminatory.” Well, I _do_ consider this to be discriminatory. Some of us are getting benefits that others are not. This may not be discrimination against a legally protected class, but it’s still discrimination, and therefore wrong. In any case, we are not asking for a handout or gift. We just want the company to pay its own costs. We don’t think that we should be subsidising the company. I also don’t think that they should be asking me to do a three month logging exercise to keep track of telephone use so they can reimburse me. My family should not have to be without a private telephone line for any but the shortest time because of my work. A point to note: When I moved into this area of the company, it was just assumed by me and my then manager that I would be able to have a telephone line put in like everyone else. The policy changed (without us being informed) sometime before I applied for my new line. I didn’t need one straight away, as I did not begin on after hours support immediately. Please let me know if you think I am being reasonable or not. I can handle being told I’m wrong, but be nice. I’m pretty grumpy at the moment. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-being-unreasonable/324678/2 "2005-10-04T02:36:19Z")
Your company expects you to be on-line from home for _hours at a time_, and is too cheap to pay for a second line? I’d start looking for employment elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-being-unreasonable/324678/3 "2005-10-04T02:47:37Z")
I don’t know if I’d say it’s discriminatory, exactly, but I believe the company should pay its own expenses. If they use your resources, they should pay for them. ---
**Author:** ![Wizz-Bang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/edb3f5/32.png) [@Wizz-Bang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wizz-Bang)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-being-unreasonable/324678/4 "2005-10-04T02:54:07Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I don’t know if I’d say it’s discriminatory, exactly, but I believe the company should pay its own expenses. If they use your resources, they should pay for them. The part that I think is discriminatory is that they _do_ pay for some peoples second 'phone line, but not for others. They seem to recognise that it is a problem, and used to do something about it, but have recently decided to say “Aww, fuck 'em” ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-being-unreasonable/324678/5 "2005-10-04T02:58:43Z")
Also keep a record of any unreimbursed expenses, such as the second phone line and look into its deductibility for income tax. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-being-unreasonable/324678/6 "2005-10-04T03:02:17Z")
> [@Wizz-Bang](#): > > The part that I think is discriminatory is that they _do_ pay for some peoples second 'phone line, but not for others. They seem to recognise that it is a problem, and used to do something about it, but have recently decided to say “Aww, fuck 'em” If they picked people to pay for based on something other than timing, I’d agree. But timing makes all the difference to me when it comes to calling something “discrimination.” I’m a sales manager, and as we hire or fire employees the rules sometimes change. So one person might be working for us under one set of rules and another under another set. That happens. What doesn’t happen is us not paying the expenses we force our employees to incur. That’s crazy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_F](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/43a26b/32.png) [@John\_F](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_F)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-being-unreasonable/324678/7 "2005-10-04T03:12:37Z")
I might be missing something but why don’t you just have a second line put in and present them with the bill as soon as you get it every month? I think this… \*“As to ongoing situation, [company] does have a policy of reimbursing employees for costs associated with doing [company] business, and I have confirmed with your business that you are entitled to any phone call costs incurred as a result of you having to dial up/make work phone calls.” \* \*“I have advised your business that the tardiness or non receipt of reimbursements is not satisfactory, and needs to be done in a timely manner. They have confirmed that this will occur.” \* Should be enough to go by. ---
**Author:** ![Wizz-Bang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/edb3f5/32.png) [@Wizz-Bang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wizz-Bang)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-being-unreasonable/324678/8 "2005-10-04T03:42:13Z")
> [@John F](#): > > I might be missing something but why don’t you just have a second line put in and present them with the bill as soon as you get it every month? I’ve been told that they will not pay for the installation costs (a couple hundred dollars in some cases). Also, the company response in my OP appears to say they will only pay pro rata for line rental costs. Even if I work 40 hours from home in a month that’s only (40/(30\*24)) 5% of the months fee. Oh, hang on…I see…maybe they mean pro rata by number of calls. Then that would be 100% for them. I’ll have to clarify that. Still doesn’t solve the intallation problem though… ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-being-unreasonable/324678/9 "2005-10-04T04:18:20Z")
I don’t know if you have some special situation or whatnot, but installing a second phone line is typically a very inexpensive and easy task. Modern homes are almost always wired with 2 twisted pair to each outlet. All the phone company would have to do is turn on an extra line and have a technician come and make the connection at the junction box. In my experience this will typically cost less than $50, a fee that is often waived for new lines. In any case, before getting overly bent out of shape you should be sure to call the phone company and find out exactly what the actual costs will be. As for the premise, I agree that based on their response, you should be able to submit the cost of the phone bill each month. To facilitate this perhaps asking the phone company to provide a seperate bill would be good. Also you’d probably want to be certain to refrain from using the second line for anything other than business calls, just to avoid and niggling by the AP department. Phone lines aren’t exactly a high cost item these days and I’d imagine that as long as the calls are all local you should be able to establish a dedicated line for about $25 a month. An amount the company would be silly to fight over, IMHO. Assuming the manager isn’t straight up fighting you on this, you should be able to justify expensing it each month. It’s not as convienent as having the company as the billable party, but still shouldn’t be a major roadblock. The company is being a little difficult, but they haven’t straight up said no. Before getting too upset I’d continue asking questions and find out what the reality of the situation will be. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-being-unreasonable/324678/10 "2005-10-04T04:26:41Z")
As I understand it, you haven’t obtained the second line yet. If so, how about ordering the second line on a completely separate bill from your personal line, and submit the intial bill (which includes the installation charge) to your employer. Or you might ask the phone company to divide the installation charge among the first six or twelve monthly bills. Then, continue to submit the monthly bill to the employer for reimbursement. If they challenge you, argue that you only ordered the line for the company’s benefit and it is not at all used for personal calls. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-being-unreasonable/324678/11 "2005-10-04T07:07:54Z")
No, don’t submit a bill that hasn’t been authorized in advance. It sounds like the company has strick rules, and you could get screwed. What costs are involved and how much do they expect you to use your personal phone? If it’s an hour a month, then you just deal with it, even if other people get a better deal. Rules change, it’s just a fact of corporations. Now, if they are having you spend an hour a day on it, then you need to get it done now, and not wait the three months. ---
**Author:** ![Pixisis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@Pixisis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixisis)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-being-unreasonable/324678/12 "2005-10-04T07:50:07Z")
> [@](#): > > As to your issue of work dial ups precluding you from receiving potentially emergency calls, or allowing other members of your family access to the home phone, IT nor [company] has a particular policy here. I have spoken to [Senior Manager] as to the incidence of this and she has indicated that it varies from individual to individual. I understand that most people will have a **mobile phone for phone calls** , and that they will use their home phone line for any dial up situation. (bolding mine) so, what if you live where there is **no** mobile signal ? or a completely unreliable one ? i know i can’t use my mobile phone at my apartment. also, why should you have to incur the expense of a mobile phone ? ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-being-unreasonable/324678/13 "2005-10-04T08:08:22Z")
If they really expect you to be online for hours at a time they clearly should be paying for a second line and if the managers can’t see that they’ve got issues. One way to handle this, of course, is to \*not \* be online for hours at a time and insist it’s not possible because you have incoming phone calls, etc. If you make your not having a second line annoying for _them_ rather than your family, they’ll probably see the wisdom in paying the small expense to get you one. The grandfather issue is your problem, not theirs. It’s the nature of business - everyone has a different arrangement during hiring and not everything’s fair. The fact is if people were given a benefit when they started and the company wants to stop giving that benefit then half the time they’ll simply decide to eliminate the benefit for newcomers rather than getting into a fight with old-timers by taking away something they’ve always had. There’s a lot of wisdom too this, trust me and most people understand that there are benefits of “seniority” so there’s usually not a stink about it from newer people. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-being-unreasonable/324678/14 "2005-10-04T13:10:52Z")
How strong is the REQUIREMENT of after-hours support. If you told your boss, “I can’t tie up my phone lines at home with this stuff and the company won’t pay for an additional one” what’s his reponse? or you do just want to play the martyr (we all know people like this: “I HAVE to be there or things will fall apart”) but you want the company to pay for it because being a martyr inconveniences you? Is it in the job description that you’re on call from home during after hours? ---
**Author:** ![ethelbert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ethelbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ethelbert)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-being-unreasonable/324678/15 "2005-10-04T14:46:16Z")
I was in essentially the same situation until I switched to DSL and it became a moot point. While I think you are right to be annoyed at your situation, it is something that happens all the time. Being right doesn’t really matter. What is your course of action? If you continue to press your point, do you expect success? Personally, I would not. YMMV. You don’t say if your employer is paying your Internet connection fees. If so, get broadband & ditch the second line. ---
**Author:** ![TheBoneyKingofNowhere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@TheBoneyKingofNowhere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheBoneyKingofNowhere)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-being-unreasonable/324678/16 "2005-10-04T17:32:42Z")
In addition to the majority of the posts (and their answers)… in response to your original question: No, I don’t believe you are being unreasonable, based on what you’ve said. Whose going to wait for an emergency call you didn’t receive, just so you can document it and show them? That’s insane. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-being-unreasonable/324678/17 "2005-10-04T18:06:44Z")
The cost of a second line to an employee is so marginal that most companies would just suck it up and pay it. After all, it means that you’re more likely to work from home. Your company is either being pennywise and pound foolish, undergoing the kind of economizing that usually precedes layoffs and plunging stock prices, or (possibly) has decided that logging on at night is a relatively rare occurence. So…you’re not being too unreasonable, but I’d frankly get them to pay for DSL or real internet access rather than phone lines. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-being-unreasonable/324678/18 "2005-10-04T18:20:53Z")
Yeah, I have to agree with all who said this is bullshit. Companies are not allowed to expect their employees to incur costs in making money for _them_. It just doesn’t work that way. I don’t use my car, my phone, my house, my paper, my pens, _any_thing to make money for my employer (if I had one) without expecting to be re-imbursed. And most people having a cell phone is a moot point, unless it’s a company cell. On the plus side, though, if you have to incur the cost of a second line, you can probably write it off 100% on your taxes. 😃