# Am I having botulism for dinner?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-having-botulism-for-dinner/784535
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [April 16, 2017, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-having-botulism-for-dinner/784535 "2017-04-16T00:50:09Z")
**Posts on this page:** 17
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Jrubas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jrubas)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2017, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-having-botulism-for-dinner/784535/1 "2017-04-16T00:50:09Z")
I bought a can of refried pinto beans at my local supermarket, and as I was putting it away, I noticed that if I pushed my thumb into the can, there was “give.” I checked a few soup cans in my cabinet and they were solid, so I’m wondering if this can is defective. Should I chuck it?
---
### Author:  [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2017, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-having-botulism-for-dinner/784535/2 "2017-04-16T02:04:03Z")
When in doubt, toss it out! No illness is worth the $2.
---
### Author:  [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2017, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-having-botulism-for-dinner/784535/3 "2017-04-16T02:14:09Z")
This is my philosophy too. Is it worth getting sick over? Chuck it. Maybe there’s nothing wrong with it, maybe there is. What you’re describing is one of the things I was always taught to look out for in a “bad” can. Buy the peace of mind for the price of the can. Throw it away.
---
### Author:  [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2017, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-having-botulism-for-dinner/784535/4 "2017-04-16T02:24:44Z")
I thought botulism always made the can swell at the top.
---
### Author:  [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2017, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-having-botulism-for-dinner/784535/5 "2017-04-16T02:33:14Z")
You just bought it? Take it back and ask for a refund. Most supermarkets are pretty good at accepting returns with no questions asked (though you should probably tell them WHY you’re returning it so they don’t restock it.)
---
### Author:  [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2017, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-having-botulism-for-dinner/784535/6 "2017-04-16T03:05:46Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#):
>
> I thought botulism always made the can swell at the top.
I thought that’s what **Jrubas** was describing – the can has become a bit swollen, so the top has some “give” when pushed on that normal cans don’t.
---
### Author:  [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2017, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-having-botulism-for-dinner/784535/7 "2017-04-16T03:28:42Z")
That’s a safety feature of some cans. If food becomes toxic, it releases gasses that push out the button in the center of the lid. If the food is safe, the button is flush with the lid. If the button bulges out, and gives when you push on it, chuck the food. It’s gone toxic. Or return it if you just bought it.
---
### Author:  [@HeXen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeXen)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2017, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-having-botulism-for-dinner/784535/8 "2017-04-16T03:30:08Z")
Or heat it to 160+ degrees F. The dead can’t hurt you anymore.
---
### Author:  [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2017, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-having-botulism-for-dinner/784535/9 "2017-04-16T03:36:54Z")
> [@HeXen](#):
>
> Or heat it to 160+ degrees F. The dead can’t hurt you anymore.
A quick search says 175°F for 10 minutes or more.
---
### Author:  [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2017, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-having-botulism-for-dinner/784535/10 "2017-04-16T03:37:28Z")
> [@HeXen](#):
>
> Or heat it to 160+ degrees F. The dead can’t hurt you anymore.
As I understand it, your advice is lethally bad. The toxin is still present even if the bacteria who made it are dead. (and in most cases, they would be dead in the case of a can. They would operate long enough to make the food toxic, then die from too many waste products because the can is sealed)
You need much higher temperatures to destroy the non-living toxins they make.
Source : [http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=1307](http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=1307)
---
### Author:  [@saturncomet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saturncomet)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2017, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-having-botulism-for-dinner/784535/11 "2017-04-16T03:49:51Z")
throw it out if you want to live a longer life
eat it if you like going to hospitals
---
### Author:  [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2017, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-having-botulism-for-dinner/784535/12 "2017-04-16T04:04:13Z")
> [@SamuelA](#):
>
> As I understand it, your advice is lethally bad. The toxin is still present even if the bacteria who made it are dead. (and in most cases, they would be dead in the case of a can. They would operate long enough to make the food toxic, then die from too many waste products because the can is sealed)
>
> You need much higher temperatures to destroy the non-living toxins they make.
>
> Source : [http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=1307](http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=1307)
Actually, you didn’t read your source very well.
The spores are much tougher than the toxin itself. The toxin is destroyed at 175°F for 10 minutes or boiling for 5 minutes, but the spores will survive. However, the spores are not particularly dangerous - they can be ingested without serious consequences (unless you are an infant).
Still, I would just toss the can.
---
### Author:  [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-having-botulism-for-dinner/784535/13 "2017-04-16T14:35:42Z")
This won’t apply to most of you, but it also depends on a person’s elevation. Here in Colorado, it’s common for certain shapes and sizes of cans to have a slight degree of bulge. There’s no way to equalize the pressure, so as the outside atmospheric pressure drops, the container starts to bulge. This produces interesting effects sometimes with softer forms of packaging.
---
### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-having-botulism-for-dinner/784535/14 "2017-04-16T16:22:14Z")
Medical advice belongs in IMHO.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
---
### Author:  [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-having-botulism-for-dinner/784535/15 "2017-04-16T19:03:13Z")
> [@Flyer](#):
>
> This won’t apply to most of you, but it also depends on a person’s elevation. Here in Colorado, it’s common for certain shapes and sizes of cans to have a slight degree of bulge. There’s no way to equalize the pressure, so as the outside atmospheric pressure drops, the container starts to bulge. This produces interesting effects sometimes with softer forms of packaging.
True, but all the containers would do this, and the can wouldn’t have “give” because the internal pressure would be that much higher.
---
### Author:  [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-having-botulism-for-dinner/784535/16 "2017-04-16T19:04:20Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#):
>
> You just bought it? Take it back and ask for a refund. Most supermarkets are pretty good at accepting returns with no questions asked (though you should probably tell them WHY you’re returning it so they don’t restock it.)
Not only that, but if someone returns a defective can, they will go out to the shelves and see if the other cans are similarly affected, and pull them if they are.
---
### Author:  [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-having-botulism-for-dinner/784535/17 "2017-04-18T00:16:21Z")
Refried pinto beans? I’d throw that even if the can was perfectly solid!
But I’ve notice lately that many cans seem less sturdy than they used to be. Possibly manufacturers are saving money by using a thinner metal can? Or maybe it’s because the same can that used to contain 16 ounces now only has 14.5 ounces in it?