# Am I imposing my religious beliefs on my co-workers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 8, 2000, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510 "2000-09-08T16:01:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510/21 "2000-09-08T18:23:28Z")
Thank you all for your replies. It’s not because I want to eat the candy (I try not to) that I buy kosher. It’s not even because of the non-Jews in the office (as I said earlier, if I were the ONLY Jew, I probably would buy non-kosher – to remove the temptation to eat from it myself). It’s strictly because of the other (non religious) Jews that I only buy kosher candy. It’s _them_ that I was wondering about. (Warning: gross over-generalization ahead!!) Many non-religous Jews tend to get antsy whenever an Orthodox Jew starts talking about religion. I realize that my friend mentioned the matter in a half joking manner, and as such, I wasn’t \* too \* seriously concerned. But it did stick in the back of my mind. _From agisofia_ > [@](#): > > \*\* > Nah. I think it might be an issue if it was against someone’s religion to eat kosher foods, and they therefore felt that they were being excluded from eating the goodies, but I don’t know of any religion that forbids eating kosher. \*\* Well, that’s not really an issue **agisofia** because there are no religions (to my knowledge, anyway) that forbid eating kosher products. However, to put it in a more applicable situation: Am I in violation of the ADA (Americans with Disabilites Act) if I don’t also put out sugar free candy for the diabetics in the office (there is at least one that I know of)? Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510/22 "2000-09-08T18:24:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Green Bean \* > \*\*You know, that’s just about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. \*\* I agree with you. I never said it was an intelligent question. That doesn’t, however, mean it couldn’t happen. Stupider things have happened in the past… Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510/23 "2000-09-08T18:36:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\*I’m not sure that we’ve really “gotten to the place” where the question HAS to be asked. From reading Zev’s postings, he strikes me as a genuinly caring individual who, on a regular basis, questions his own actions to make certain that he is causing no undue harm. Nice, in other words. \*\* ::blushing:: > [@](#): > > \*\* > And, it’s opened up, as far as I’m concerned a couple of tangents that I’d never thought about. Was not aware, for instance that either candy or microwaves could be “kosher”. eradication of another teeny corner of ignorance, thank you. \*\* Candy, like any other food item, can be kosher or not depending on it’s ingredients and/or the way it is prepared. Microwaves, ovens, dishes, pots, pans and the like can be kosher or not depending on what was prepared in them. According to Jewish law, utensils absorb flavoring of hot items in the walls of the utensil. This flavor can also be released back into food being prepared in that vessel later. Thus, if I prepare a roast ham in my oven, the oven walls absorb some of that flavoring. In addition, that flavoring would then be released back into any subsequent foods being prepared in that oven, thus rendering them non-kosher. Certain utensils (depending on their composition) can be _kashered_ (made fit for kosher food again). The exact process of which is beyond the scope of this post. This, by the way, is the reason Orthodox Jews keep two sets of dishes (meat and dairy) since mixing the two is forbidden. > [@](#): > > \*\* > In addition, sdimbert’s posting was interesting to me as well. how DOES one balance the need for religious freedom with corporate demands for workplace equity? hmm. back to my drawing board. \*\* In what way? Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![RickG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rickg/32/5174_2.png) [@RickG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickG)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510/24 "2000-09-08T18:36:49Z")
Many good answers already but… My sense from Zev’s question was that his concern was not so much for the non-Jews, but for the (possibly non-observant) Jews in the office. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems that he buys kosher candy not for himself, but because he doesn’t want to knowingly cause another Jew to violate a commandment, whether they care or not. Does this fall under not “putting a stumbling block before the blind”? There are some Jews that are offended at the notion of more observant Jews “violating their autonomy” to eat whatever they want (witness the interdenominational disputes over whether a kitchen at a new JCC in our community should be kosher). _(As I preview, I see Zev has already reiterated these points, but I’ll leave them anyhow)_ If you’re going out of your way to point out to your Jewish co-workers that you bought kosher candy so you wouldn’t cause them to violate a _mitzvah_, that might be out of line. Otherwise, I would think that everyone just assumes that you’re bringing in stuff that you can eat yourself. Would a Seventh Day Adventist or Hindu be upbraided for never bringing Swedish meatballs to a company potluck (unless they were made with GimmeLean (OK-Pareve IIRC), of course)? So, relax and keep bringing that candy in. Good shabbos (oops, is that proselytizing?), Rick ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510/25 "2000-09-08T19:11:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RickG \* > \*\*Many good answers already but… > > My sense from Zev’s question was that his concern was not so much for the non-Jews, but for the (possibly non-observant) Jews in the office. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems that he buys kosher candy not for himself, but because he doesn’t want to knowingly cause another Jew to violate a commandment, whether they care or not. Does this fall under not “putting a stumbling block before the blind”? There are some Jews that are offended at the notion of more observant Jews “violating their autonomy” to eat whatever they want (witness the interdenominational disputes over whether a kitchen at a new JCC in our community should be kosher). _(As I preview, I see Zev has already reiterated these points, but I’ll leave them anyhow)_\*\* Thank you, Rick. You expressed the situation much better than I did. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510/26 "2000-09-08T19:52:23Z")
zev\_steinhardt wrote: > [@](#): > > Microwaves, ovens, dishes, pots, pans and the like can be kosher or not depending on what was prepared in them. According to Jewish law, utensils absorb flavoring of hot items in the walls of the utensil. This flavor can also be released back into food being prepared in that vessel later. Thus, if I prepare a roast ham in my oven, the oven walls absorb some of that flavoring. In addition, that flavoring would then be released back into any subsequent foods being prepared in that oven, thus rendering them non-kosher. > > Certain utensils (depending on their composition) can be _kashered_ (made fit for kosher food again). The exact process of which is beyond the scope of this post. > > This, by the way, is the reason Orthodox Jews keep two sets of dishes (meat and dairy) since mixing the two is forbidden. At last I understand! A long time ago (in a galaxy far, far away), I heard a song on the Dr. Demento Show called “The Ballad of Irving”. It was about a Jewish cowboy named Irving, the 142nd Fastest Gun in the West. One of the verses was: “He came from the old Bar Mitzvah spread With a ten-gallon yamulka on his head. He always followed his mother’s wishes – Even on the range he used two sets of dishes!” Now I know what that “two sets of dishes” line is all about! ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510/27 "2000-09-08T20:39:45Z")
Great, you know that song is now stuck in my head! Irving, big dumb Irving Big dumb dead Irving… ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510/28 "2000-09-08T20:51:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > \*\* > ::blushing:: \*\* awww, I made zev blush! Thanks for the explanation about the microwave. I knew about the two set of dishes, just didn’t go all the way through in my mind to microwave. I see it now. > [@](#): > > \*\* \* posted by wring \* > In addition, sdimbert’s posting was interesting to me as well. how DOES one balance the need for religious freedom with corporate demands for workplace equity? hmm. back to my drawing board. \*\* > [@](#): > > \*\* zev > In what way? \*\* sdimbert included an example of a devout employee needing certain amount of breaks during the day for prayers etc and perhaps more than the typical number or times of days off. I live in Michigan, where, for 2 weeks during the year entire companies shut down because of deer hunting season, so I’m relatively familiar with the need of a corporation to comply with certain employee issues. Where I think it needs to go back to the drawing board, as it were, is to balance all employee’s needs/rights of religious expression with other employee’s number of breaks and so on. It’s the age old debate about the smokers taking more “official” breaks 'cause they have to go outside, whereas the non smoker may “loose” their break 'cause they stay at their desk. thanks, and blush away. ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2000, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510/29 "2000-09-09T10:58:51Z")
zev: you are comletely in the clear on this, OK? Sheesh Now, if the candy was bought with company funds, and Kosher was considerably more expensive, and you insisted that only Kosher be bought…but this is ridiculous, so i won’t go on. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2000, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510/30 "2000-09-09T12:18:58Z")
sdimbert said: > [@](#): > > There is another, much larger internet firm in NJ that employs many, many Jews. The owner is Jewish and I would estimate that almost 70% of the company is Observant Jews. > > They recently settled (out of court) a class-action suit filed by the non-Jewish employees. It seems that Jewish employees got extra breaks during the day for prayers, got more days off because of Jewish holidays, etc. Don’t they know that you’re only supposed to get extra breaks if you smoke? Jeez… (They actually gave _extra_ days off to the Jewish workers? Not too bright.) ---
**Author:** ![Feynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@Feynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feynn)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2000, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510/31 "2000-09-09T13:39:06Z")
I would appreciate anyone who brought sweets to the office, its just a nice thing to do. The fact that it is kosher candy and everyone can enjoy it is a good idea. My co-worker is a devout Muslim and I have paid special attention to ingredients when I have brought items to work to share as he follows very similar dietary practices. He said that he appreciated it that I would check things out for his benefit. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2000, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510/32 "2000-09-10T01:59:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Telemark \* > \*\*Great, you know that song is now stuck in my head! > > Irving, big dumb Irving > Big dumb dead Irving… > > \*\* … the 142nd fastest gun in the West… 🙂 Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2000, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510/33 "2000-09-10T03:19:26Z")
Hijak: Chaim, Zev, can you help me out here? I’ve just moved to the States, and this thread has made me a bit nervous. Can you give me a list of non-kosher candy? I’m Conservative, so I don’t really care too much about a Kashrut stamp, but I’d like to know which brands actively include treif. I know Oreos are bad. What else? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2000, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510/34 "2000-09-10T03:25:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alessan \* > \*\*Hijak: > > Chaim, Zev, can you help me out here? I’ve just moved to the States, and this thread has made me a bit nervous. Can you give me a list of non-kosher candy? I’m Conservative, so I don’t really care too much about a Kashrut stamp, but I’d like to know which brands actively include treif. I know Oreos are bad. What else? \*\* Actually, most Oreos are now kosher. If you are interested in keeping kosher, but not interested in the certification process, the only tool you have to go by is the list of ingredients on the box. That works for non-kosher products. It doesn’t cover, however, the mixing of kosher meat/dairy products. Also, with this (imperfect) method, you’d have to check the list of ingredients every time (in case the manufacturers made a formula change). HOWEVER, I believe (and if I’m wrong, I’m sure someone will correct me) a manufacturer doesn’t have to list an item in the ingredients if it is below a certain percentage of the total. This too, may cause you problems. Your best bet would be to look for the _hechsher_ (kosher certification). Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2000, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510/35 "2000-09-10T04:22:02Z")
> [@](#): > > However, to put it in a more applicable situation: Am I in violation of the ADA (Americans with Disabilites Act) if I don’t also put out sugar free candy for the diabetics in the office (there is at least one that I know of)? I’m a diabetic, and an atheist. Diabetics CAN eat small amounts of sugar. In fact, I’d far rather eat a couple of pieces of “real” candy, kosher or not, than some of that sugar free stuff that’s on the market. I really don’t care if a food is kosher or not, so I don’t think that the OP has anything to worry about. By the way, a lot of those sugar free candies can cause the runs and/or extreme flatulence if you eat more than a couple of them. As I said, I’d rather eat the real thing. ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2000, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510/36 "2000-09-10T11:12:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > **This, by the way, is the reason Orthodox Jews keep two sets of dishes (meat and dairy) since mixing the two is forbidden.** I know about this rule, but I’ve often wondered how…uh…extreme it is. I know Jews who keep Kosher can’t have a cheesburger, but can you eat a salad with cheese sprinkled on it for an appetizer and, say, chicken for your entree? ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2000, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510/37 "2000-09-10T13:10:35Z")
No. Those who keep kosher generally have a certain time period between which they’ve eaten a milk product and when they can eat a meat product (and vice versa). How long depends on how strict you keep it. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2000, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510/38 "2000-09-11T03:29:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scarlett67 \* > **In another group, there was a discussion a while back about unconsecrated Communion wafers. The consensus was that until they’re blessed by the priest (or whatever – I’m NOT trying to start a theological debate here), they’re just bread. And in the manufacturing process, as with other types of cookies, crackers, etc., some are stamped wrong or broken. We don’t want to waste them . . . So in some areas, one can find, IIRC in places like Sam’s Club, bags of “Broken Hosts” that you can buy as a snack food.** For obvious reasons, those are easy to find in Montreal as well; you can buy good-sized paper bags of broken hosts in supermarkets. The main funny thing about them is seeing, in big letters, “RÉTAILLES D’HOSTIES”, in your supermarket aisles. That is because “hostie”, which literally means “host”, is also a swear word in Québécois French. (Sort of like “bitch” and “bastard” - polite only in certain clearly defined contexts.) It is almost but not quite as funny as those pastries called “pets de soeurs” - “nun farts”. (The English translators usually wuss out and call them “nuns’ pastry”.) ---
**Author:** ![evilbeth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/evilbeth/32/2268_2.png) [@evilbeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilbeth)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2000, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510/39 "2000-09-11T08:42:01Z")
I know this has already been answered fully but I have to post something–I read the whole thread! Anyway, I think the only way it could be considered proselytizing is if you were buying those little candies with the Bible verses on them or something (“Testamints”?) and then it would only be proselytizing if those were the only kinds of candy available in the office or if they were purchased with office money. Or maybe not. Just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2000, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510/40 "2000-09-11T13:08:40Z")
Well, it could be considered prostelytizing if every time one of the less-religious Jews took a piece of candy, Zev said “Those are kosher, you know.” Or maybe that would just be annoying. In any case, we’ll just assume that Zev’s not doing that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-imposing-my-religious-beliefs-on-my-co-workers/32510.md?page=3)