# Am I Just an Old Fart, or Are They Really Getting Younger? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 2, 2004, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303 "2004-01-02T16:20:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303/21 "2004-01-02T23:41:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hroeder \* > \*\*A big part of it is Hollyweird using older actresses to play younger roles. TV Show Roswell: all of the leads were in their 20s. Even Amber Tymblyn who plays the 16 year old on Joan of Arcadia has already passed the big 20. > > This is a societal problem, methinks. Because we cast women as children. Thus we start thinking of children as women, and we get Brittney and Avrill and all those people. Of course they’ve been performing for eight or ten years. . . > \*\* Um… what about Dawson, Pacey, Jack, Xander, Oz, Max, Micheal and Alex, not to mention Ephram, Bright, Collin, Lucas, Nathan and Clark Kent? All the **males** in “teen” shows are 20-somethings too, you know. And on Dawson’s Creek, the men playing teenage boys were all older than the women playing teenage girls. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303/22 "2004-01-02T23:49:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hroeder \* > \*\*A big part of it is Hollyweird using older actresses to play younger roles. TV Show Roswell: all of the leads were in their 20s. Even Amber Tymblyn who plays the 16 year old on Joan of Arcadia has already passed the big 20. > > This is a societal problem, methinks. Because we cast women as children. Thus we start thinking of children as women, and we get Brittney and Avrill and all those people. Of course they’ve been performing for eight or ten years. . . > > \*\* Actually Majandra Delfino who played Maria DeLuca on Roswell was was born in 1981. She was actually underage to work on the show but she lied about her age. She was 17 when she started work on the show. You need 20 something women to play those roles because although a 16 may have a voice and a bod like Ms. Spears or Charlotte Church, to ACT in a major role requires a little bit more maturity. You have to, you know, think about stuff. So it’s pretty rare that you have teenagers acting in films and TV playing their own age. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303/23 "2004-01-03T03:31:17Z")
I hate to be cynical, but the reason that teens don’t play teens is simply because of the laws that require them to have x hours a day of on-set schooling. This costs money and reduces the time and flexibility of shooting. If they can find older actors who can play younger, the producers don’t have this problem. And the actors’ bodies and faces are better developed and sexier. Maturity? One time out of a hundred. Maybe. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303/24 "2004-01-03T04:03:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hroeder \* > \*\*I’ll still take Sigourney Weaver over Britnney Spears, anyday. Sooner or later you either have to talk or kill aliens and Britnney is going to be no use in either case. \*\* Sig line! ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2004, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303/25 "2004-01-03T05:58:40Z")
Did anybody see the remake of [Doctor Zhivago](http://imdb.com/title/tt0324937/)? At 27 Hans Matheson was only slightly too young to play Yuri, but Lara was played by [Keira Knightley](http://imdb.com/name/nm0461136/) (of PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN fame) who was only 16 during the shooting! While that is admittedly Lara’s age in the early part of the novel, the novel spans several years during which Lara marries, has two children and ages through a wacky series of adventures called the Russian Revolution. (Plus, why did the original need a remake anyway?) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2004, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303/26 "2004-01-03T06:02:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jayjay \* > \*\*You got me on Connery. I really thought he’d been in more new films than IMDB lists for him recently (mostly Bond retrospectives in the last five years). > > But Ford’s was in Random Hearts in 1999 and Six Days, Seven Nights in 1998, both romantic leads. \*\* Of course, his counterpart in “Random Hearts” at least wasn’t a 20s sexpot (Kristin Scott Thomas was 39 then.) The really disgusting case, of course, is Woody Allen, a once-talented man and now a hack sex maniac who for ten or twelve years has basically made movies only to give him an excuse to kiss young women. I’m surprised he hasn’t remade Lolita yet with himself as Humbert Humbert. **Zebra,** it’s absurd to suppose you can’t find a 17-year-old as mature as many 20-year-olds. I know plenty of teenagers who can handle serious work and I know people in their 20s and 30s I wouldn’t trust to boil an egg. As evidenced by, say, Haley Joel Osment, who was a better actor at 6 than some Hollywood stars at 36, you can find capable actors at any age. The issue is simply than an adult has fewer legal issues than a kid. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2004, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303/27 "2004-01-03T06:11:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sampiro \* > \*\*(Plus, why did the original need a remake anyway?) \*\* The copyright on “Lara’s Theme” was going to run out and there were still music box royalties to be made? 😃 _strolls away humming, “Somewhere my love, there will be songs to sing…”_ ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2004, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303/28 "2004-01-03T06:17:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LunaSea \* > \*\*Harrison Ford isn’t “well into his seventies” he’s 61. > > It does bother me a little to see men of his age and older getting paired onscreen with women young enough to be their children. \*\* Of course, that’s what many of them – including Ford – are doing in real life. How old are Calista Flockhart and Catherine Zeta-Jones? Still young enough to be their SOs’ daughters, that’s for darn sure. So in that respect, it’s not that far removed from the reality that Hollywood writers, directors and producers see every single day. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2004, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303/29 "2004-01-03T06:21:11Z")
How about these 2 movies - **"The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence and “Posedon Adventure”** - made in the 1960’s and 1970’s respectively. Go to the IMDB and see the ages of the cast in those movies. (For example look up Jimmy Stewart, John Wayne, Andy Devine, Shelley Winters, Ernest Borgnine, Red Buttons, etc). If those movies were remade today, I am sure that a _much younger_ cast would be chosen. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303/30 "2004-01-05T02:26:06Z")
Let’s look at some current “Oscar buzz” films: **Lord of the Rings** Elijah Wood 1981 Ian McKellen 1939 Liv Tyler 1977 Viggo Mortensen 1958 Miranda Otto 1967 **Lost in Translation** Scarlett Johansson 1984 Bill Murray 1950 **Cold Mountain** Jude Law 1972 Nicole Kidman 1967 Renée Zellweger 1969 Donald Sutherland 1935 **Last Samurai** Ken Watanabe 1959 Tom Cruise 1962 So we see that the average age is around 40. However, if we split out men from women, the average “leading” man is aged 46 while the average woman is 30. The age difference betwee Bill and Scarlett is 34 years, between Viggo and Liv is 19, and I haven’t seen **Cold Mountain** so I don’t know who is playing opposite whom. Let me know which movies support your point, whatever that may be, and let’s check 'em out. ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303/31 "2004-01-05T11:36:12Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by troub_Why these kids have so much money to waste is the bigger sociocultural question these days. Bigger allowances–yes, but why? More kids getting jobs at younger ages–maybe. Bigger middle class. The parents have more money, therefore the kids get more money. And there may well be more service jobs available as a result of the bigger middle class, meaning there are jobs likely to employ teenagers around. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303/32 "2004-01-05T12:50:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RickJay \* > \*\* > > **Zebra,** it’s absurd to suppose you can’t find a 17-year-old as mature as many 20-year-olds. I know plenty of teenagers who can handle serious work and I know people in their 20s and 30s I wouldn’t trust to boil an egg. As evidenced by, say, Haley Joel Osment, who was a better actor at 6 than some Hollywood stars at 36, you can find capable actors at any age. The issue is simply than an adult has fewer legal issues than a kid. \*\* That is true, but it is far easier to find a mature 25-year-old then a mature 15-year-old. I’m not just talking acting ability. It’s about showing up on time and being professional. Something that many teens or younger can have a problem with doing. Workning with a child and what’s worse, the dreaded stage mother is one PitA that most people would like to avoid. Just ask W.C. Fields. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303/33 "2004-01-05T13:48:17Z")
Average age of Best Actress nominees at the time of the Academy Awards ceremony: 1929/30: 29.6 years 1940: 29.0 years 1950: 36.2 years 1960: 36.2 years 1970: 30.2 years 1980: 41.6 years 1990: 41.2 years 2000: 43.8 years ---
**Author:** ![curly\_chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@curly\_chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curly_chick)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303/34 "2004-01-05T14:19:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Justin\_Bailey \* > \*\*To be far Sean Connery hasn’t played a romantic lead in over 8 years. \*\* And just how old do you think he was 8 years ago? And how old was the leading romantic lady in this film? I don’t know what film it is you are talking about, nor therefore the actress in question, but I’d bet my house she was a decade or two younger than the age **he** was 8 years ago, given that he will be 74 this year. Or am wrong; did we see Sean Connery doing the bold thing with Dame Judi Dench? In a similar vein, how old was Olivia Newton John in Grease? Nothing like 17, that’s for good and certain, she was more like 30. Pierce Brosnan is doing another James Bond, for God’s sake! He is far too old for it now. The age of the actors is immaterial in films, all that matters is how much clout the actors have and how much Hollywood perceives of the power of that star to put bums on seats. Full stop. End of. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303/35 "2004-01-05T14:43:23Z")
> [@](#): > > The age difference betwee Bill and Scarlett is 34 years, between Viggo and Liv is 19, and I haven’t seen Cold Mountain so I don’t know who is playing opposite whom. Hah. In **Cold Mountain** , each of the leading women is paired with a **younger** man. Kidman (36) with Law (31), and Zellweger (34) with Jack White (28). ---
**Author:** ![hroeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@hroeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hroeder)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303/36 "2004-01-05T17:19:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zebra \* > \*\* You need 20 something women to play those roles because although a 16 may have a voice and a bod . . .to ACT in a major role requires a little bit more maturity. You have to, you know, think about stuff. So it’s pretty rare that you have teenagers acting in films and TV playing their own age. \*\* That’s the entire point. (And it’s men as much as women.) Let’s go back to Wonder Years. Fred Savage and Danica McKellar were, at most, a year older than the roles they were playing. They came across as the people they were playing. Sure it’s easier to pretend that Shiri Appleby is really a teenager. And she can almost pass. But she is more mature. She does have a different demeanor. (and she wasn’t that much over age.) The point is that we start creating these “role models” for our young people, who can’t be reached by those young people. As to the idea that younger people can’t act: Jodie Foster? Tatum O’Neal? They have to go to school. And they can’t work past 10 PM. And they can’t work more than 8 hours. And they have to be given a break every 3 hours. . .wow! hard rules to abide by! When most of that time is sitting around waiting. . . Alyssa Milano actual was a child actress once. Now she’s able to legally take her clothes off. She’s still a child actress. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303/37 "2004-01-05T18:12:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gex gex \* > \*\*Bigger middle class. The parents have more money, therefore the kids get more money. And there may well be more service jobs available as a result of the bigger middle class, meaning there are jobs likely to employ teenagers around. \*\* Teens are much more likely than adults to see a movie they like _over and over again_. Plus, as you say, they have the money to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303/38 "2004-01-05T18:27:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by curly chick \* > \*\*And just how old do you think he was 8 years ago? > And how old was the leading romantic lady in this film? > > I don’t know what film it is you are talking about, nor therefore the actress in question, but I’d bet my house she was a decade or two younger than the age **he** was 8 years ago, given that he will be 74 this year. > Or am wrong; did we see Sean Connery doing the bold thing with Dame Judi Dench? > > In a similar vein, how old was Olivia Newton John in Grease? Nothing like 17, that’s for good and certain, she was more like 30. > > Pierce Brosnan is doing another James Bond, for God’s sake! > He is far too old for it now. > > The age of the actors is immaterial in films, all that matters is how much clout the actors have and how much Hollywood perceives of the power of that star to put bums on seats. Full stop. End of. \*\* For the record the movie was First Knight with his co-star being the then 30 year old Julia Ormand. Fine. And Dame Judi Dench has done more for the Bond series than almost anyone in recent years. Her acting as M is great and is light years better than the “drinking buddy M” that appeared in most of the Connery Bonds. And it has led to her getting work in movies she wouldn’t really be considered for before. Like the upcoming Chronicles of Riddick. But the rest of your arguments don’t seem to do your case any good. What does Olivia Newton John’s age have to do with anything? Why is Pierce Brosnan too old to play James Bond? Why are you ignoring the fact that many younger women find older men attractive but the reverse almost never happens? And if clout is so important, why do many of the female actresses with clout decide to “retire” rather than fix a system that so many people see as flawed? ---
**Author:** ![MisterThyristor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecccb3/32.png) [@MisterThyristor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MisterThyristor)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303/39 "2004-01-05T20:51:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Justin\_Bailey \* > \*\*To be far Sean Connery hasn’t played a romantic lead in over 8 years. The same with Harrison Ford, who has not played a romantic lead in over 5 years. > > \*\* What about his role in “Entrapment” (1999) playing opposite Catherine Zeta-Jones? She was 30 at the time, he was 69. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303/40 "2004-01-05T21:14:33Z")
But Entrapment was a crime movie with a romanctic subplot. Not quite the same thing. Entrapment Spoilers: And besides, with all the double crossing at the end, I don’t see how anyone can look at their relationship as anyhting close to a “romance.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-just-an-old-fart-or-are-they-really-getting-younger/222303.md?page=3)