# Am I losing my sanity, my marriage, or both? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 22, 2023, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422 "2023-05-22T14:09:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/141 "2023-05-25T09:58:32Z")
There was a time in my life when i had one or two decks of tarot cards, and a book about how to use them to tell fortunes. (I still have the book, a handmade gift from a friend.) The cards weren’t expensive at the time, and I’ve assumed i could replace them for a modest fee. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/142 "2023-05-25T10:08:26Z")
Even states that aren’t community property states require assets acquired while married to be shared. For instance, i googled Illinois [https://www.sterlinglawyers.com/illinois/property-division/marital-property/#:~:text=In%20Illinois%2C%20anything%20acquired%20during,have%20to%20be%20split%20evenly.&text=Marital%20property%20is%20property%20owned%20by%20both%20parties](https://www.sterlinglawyers.com/illinois/property-division/marital-property/#:~:text=In%20Illinois%2C%20anything%20acquired%20during,have%20to%20be%20split%20evenly.&text=Marital%20property%20is%20property%20owned%20by%20both%20parties). It does say: > ### Illinois Dissipation of Marital Assets > > If a spouse wastes, destroys, or hides assets, that is a [dissipation of assets](https://www.sterlinglawyers.com/illinois/property-division/hidden-assets/#:~:text=Dissipation%20of%20Assets,this%20is%20happening.). This is illegal under Illinois law. If you suspect your spouse of this, it is important to speak with an attorney as soon as possible. > > An attorney knows the precautions and the necessary evidence to support a dissipation of assets claim. For this or any other divorce issue, contact [Sterling Hughes](https://www.sterlinglawyers.com/illinois/) to meet with an attorney. That would seem to be designed for the “gambles everything away” case, but would also outlaw hiding part of your income from your spouse. I don’t think you can just unilaterally decide that your spouse is wasting material property without either them or a court agreeing to that. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/143 "2023-05-25T10:26:50Z")
I may be misunderstanding but what your cite is saying is that _at divorce_ assets of the couple are treated in a certain way, and that _hiding assets at divorce_ is illegal. Per the same website: > ## Dissipation of Assets > > Dissipation is an overarching term that includes the hiding of marital assets. Dissipation is when a spouse wastes, destroys, or hides property or money [**after a divorce is evident**](https://www.sterlinglawyers.com/illinois/property-division/hidden-asset). This is an illegal act and there are very specific legal steps that need to be taken if you believe this is happening. Maybe the bush lawyers around here should keep quiet about the OP’s rights and telling him he’s doing something illegal till someone who knows what they are talking about comes along. I haven’t seen a single thing so far that says that a married person in Illinois cannot have their own assets, during marriage, to which their spouse does not have access. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/144 "2023-05-25T10:28:21Z")
The tremendous amount of vitrol directed toward the OP’s wife in this thread is an object lesson in why a neutral, 3rd party counselor might be helpful for this couple. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/145 "2023-05-25T10:47:28Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Maybe the bush lawyers around here should keep quiet about the OP’s rights and telling him he’s doing something illegal till someone who knows what they are talking about comes along. I haven’t seen a single thing so far that says that a married person in Illinois cannot have their own assets, during marriage, to which their spouse does not have access. Having your own assets is different from taking marital assets away from your spouse. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/146 "2023-05-25T10:52:49Z")
The post to which I was responding was about the OP taking control of his own earnings. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/147 "2023-05-25T10:57:59Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > She’s already out of the door. She’s gone . This is really way off base. Reading a few words typed by a single member of a couple, and declaring their marriage over? Fuckin hell. It’s why I don’t discuss my relationship on these boards. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/148 "2023-05-25T10:58:24Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yeah, but if he withholds all his income from her, he’s stealing. This is what you said. Firmly, authoritatively, and as far as I can see, completely wrongly. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/149 "2023-05-25T11:13:43Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > How would you make that happen when they are married and are legally both owners of all of that money? She is a spouse, not a child. I agree this is the case under normal circumstances, but what happens when one partner begins to drift down the river mentally? The OP: > [@Akaj](#): > > … here comes the “losing my mind” part … > > … she said when I bring my negativity about money into her awareness, it weakens her energy, and these days she’s all about energy. Every time I try to discuss money she dismisses it like it’s a personal neurosis. At what point can the sane partner get power of attorney over his or her mentally diminished partner? I know this can be done because a retired former colleague of mine did just that when his wife began sending big installments of money to people she met via a scam over the phone. This might be the only approach he has. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/150 "2023-05-25T11:18:19Z")
His earnings are marital assets. They aren’t his alone, even if the state rarely steps in except when a couple divorces. That’s a legal claim. But I’ll make a moral claim rather than a legal claim. If he withholds his earnings from his wife, he is stealing from her. In the absence of a specific agreement to the contrary, both parties in a marriage have rights to money earned during the marriage. And I’ll make another moral claim. Unilaterally changing the rules and hiding your earnings from your spouse is controlling and abusive. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/151 "2023-05-25T11:20:47Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > At what point can the sane partner get power of attorney over his or her mentally diminished partner? I know this can be done because a retired former colleague of mine did just that when his wife began sending big installments of money to people she met via a scam over the phone. This might be the only approach he has. While this is certainly a thing that people sometimes need to do, i really don’t understand how anyone jumps from “my wife has been buying expensive crystal crap and it annoys me when i pay the bills” to “my wife has gone off the deep end and can’t be trusted with money at all.” ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/152 "2023-05-25T11:23:15Z")
Anyway, I’m probably too emotionally involved in this, and it’s probably best if i step away for a bit. I’m sure I’ll be back, but hopefully not for a few hours. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/153 "2023-05-25T11:25:34Z")
Based on just what he has reported, I don’t either, to be honest, but there may be more stuff he hasn’t mentioned. I mean, now that she has gotten to the point where she is creating a financial hardship because she needs “crystal energy”, she seems to be going down that path. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/154 "2023-05-25T11:27:05Z")
I feel like this is going around and around and going nowhere. My own opinion – that it is a communication problem primarily, not about a woman who is irrational and is heading a marriage toward bankruptcy – doesn’t seem to be popular here. The typically male perspective on this board is focused on controlling the wife by forcing her to align with her husband’s monetary and taste requirements. I’m saying that is not just futile but stupid. If the OP doesn’t focus on _ **communication** _ – listening with heart – with his wife, he is going to remain angry and frustrated. Nobody in a marriage changes voluntarily without feeling heard and supported. So I’m bowing out. Carry on with your punitive and angry advice guys. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/155 "2023-05-25T11:33:21Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > His earnings are marital assets. They aren’t his alone, even if the state rarely steps in except when a couple divorces. That’s a legal claim. When in hole stop digging. Something is not my property just because, on the happening of a certain event that may never happen, it may become my property. If there was a divorce, there would be a division of property with numerous rules and guidelines surrounding how the property would be divided. It is a totally different situation that does not exist _within_ marriage. You have provided no cite to the effect that, for a married person to withhold their earnings, during marriage, is theft. The cite you have provided strongly implies the contrary, given that it is careful to qualify its statement about marital property by reference to divorce. While I am not familiar with the OP‘s jurisdiction, in my experience is highly likely that the OP has a responsibility to support his spouse. That does not mean that for him to withhold all his earnings is “stealing” (words have meanings), but it may mean that he has a civil obligation of support. If my understanding of the law in Illinois is correct, and if the OP is in Illinois, then it is highly unlikely that for the OP to put his earnings in an account, in only his own name, while continuing to distribute money from those earnings to support his wife (but not some con artist selling $350 lies) is not theft, is not illegal, and is not in my opinion, immoral. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/156 "2023-05-25T11:37:30Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Unilaterally changing the rules and hiding your earnings from your spouse is controlling and abusive. But emotional blackmail about “weakening my energy” when I don’t get my way is what? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/157 "2023-05-25T11:41:03Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I haven’t seen a single thing so far that says that a married person in Illinois cannot have their own assets, during marriage, to which their spouse does not have access. Is Akaj supposed to tell his wife that his opening a personal banking account for 90% of the household’s income is a great idea because a court wouldn’t force him to give her money? I get that you’re focusing on a specific legal point, but it’s a hijack and not useful for a person who is actually interested in having a happy marriage. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/158 "2023-05-25T11:54:11Z")
> [@susan](#): > > The tremendous amount of vitrol directed toward the OP’s wife in this thread is an object lesson in why a neutral, 3rd party counselor might be helpful for this couple. Indeed, especially since we only have one side of the story here. Maybe Akaj is being unnecessarily a tightwad on the finances. Maybe he is a bit of a control freak. Maybe he is unnecessarily neurotic about finances. Who knows? A neutral third party would. Man, there are so many conclusions being jumped to in this thread, and the idea of hiding the money or tying off the pursestrings and condescending to her like a child in this way is positively gross. I’d get a divorce before I stooped to that level. (But I don’t think any action like that is close to being warranted now.) @Spice_Weasel had the most sensible advice for my money in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/159 "2023-05-25T12:07:52Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > The typically male perspective on this board is focused on controlling the wife by forcing her to align with her husband’s monetary and taste requirements. Speaking of communication, I don’t know whether you are reading the same thread as me, but the one I’m reading is by an OP by a person whose hard earned is being dissipated in a way he can’t afford. Perhaps it’s a matter of judgement, but my reading of the OP is that if he had money to burn, he wouldn’t mind. It’s not about controlling her taste it’s about having money to retire on. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Is Akaj supposed to tell his wife that his opening a personal banking account for 90% of the household’s income is a great idea because a court wouldn’t force him to give her money? > > I get that you’re focusing on a specific legal point, but it’s a hijack and not useful for a person who is actually interested in having a happy marriage. Firstly, I am all in favour of the OP trying everything short of the nuclear options and have never said anything different. However, I think that the OP deserves to know what the nuclear options are. Secondly you are excluding a gigantic middle. Akaj can tell his wife (I would suggest as an absolute last resort) that he is putting his earnings into a personal bank account from which a certain amount will (for example) go direct to retirement savings for them both, before the rest is distributed into their joint account. Thirdly, it is more than a little bit weird that several people in this thread saying something that as far as I can make out is completely false does not seem to bother you, but correcting the position is a “hijack”. Not to mention that if the posters in question just shut up once it became apparent they were probably wrong I wouldn’t have had to post as many times as I had - but somehow the hijack is my problem? The OP should know what his actual options are (rather than having a couple of bush lawyers denying them). If people want me not to continue to point this out, they can feel free to stop posting BS on the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/160 "2023-05-25T12:11:45Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Man, there are so many conclusions being jumped to in this thread, and the idea of hiding the money… For example no one has propounded “hiding the money”. Conclusion jumping indeed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422.md?page=9)