# Am I losing my sanity, my marriage, or both? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 22, 2023, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422 "2023-05-22T14:09:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/161 "2023-05-25T12:15:31Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > For example no one has propounded “hiding the money” Conclusion jumping indeed. Sorry, bad summarization on my part. (I thought someone had explicitly suggested that, but I guess not if you say so.) Put in: open a separate account to move money to or put money in. Doesn’t really change my point. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/162 "2023-05-25T12:19:52Z")
The absolutely disgraceful amount of strawmanning that goes on around here\* (not by you) does make it hard to keep clear who has said something, and who has been strawmanned as if they had said something. \*… and, to be fair, in all debate everywhere ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/163 "2023-05-25T12:35:01Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > My own opinion – that it is a communication problem primarily, not about a woman who is irrational and is heading a marriage toward bankruptcy – doesn’t seem to be popular here. I agree–and when you and @Sam_Stone and I all agree on something, you know there’s something going on! The more I read folks sneer at her “woo,” the more annoyed I get at folks. I think about it from my perspective. I came into a little bit of unexpected money at the end of this school year, and I decided to buy a Nintendo Switch and a game. Coincidentally, it worked out to about the same price as a crystal globe. My wife _does not_ play video games, so this is for me, not her. (Well, it’s also for our children, but my wife will get no joy from it). Just like the crystal globe is for Akaj’s wife, not for him. There are some differences. One of them is _not_ that it’s “my money.” My wife and I are married, and we run a household jointly. Who brings the money in is morally irrelevant. But both of us (I think) handled the purchase better than the crystal globe purchase. Before I ordered the Switch, I checked in with my wife. It’s not a game-breaking purchase, but it’s big enough that I wanted to make sure she wouldn’t be stressed about it. That’s the first difference. The second difference is, although my wife doesn’t play video games, she knows I get pleasure from them, and she wants me to be happy, so she didn’t sneer at my purchase. I can’t tell whether @Akaj is letting his disdain for “woo nonsense” (from the OP) show, but I suspect it is. Rather than considering the purchase as a way to make her happy, like Breath of the Wild does for me, he’s thinking about it in terms of whether it’s “real.” Which is not a good take, IMO. I definitely think the “virtue” of the purchase (or the “validity”, or the “scientific rationale,” or whatever) should be ignored. Calling it “woo nonsense” is showing pretty strong disrespect for something she finds important, and it’s gonna be hard to have a calm conversation about the financial aspects if that’s in your mind. Again: I’m not saying she handled it perfectly. It would’ve been better had she checked with you before making a several-hundred-dollar purchase. But I think that moving forward is gonna require recalibrating the discussion, leaving out the “woo nonsense” factor entirely. Finally, > [@Akaj](#): > > My position – which I believe is perfectly reasonable – is simply that she should stop spending money on these things until she’s actually earning enough to pay for them and still support our household. I don’t like that much at all. A joint household has joint finances, and tracking who’s bringing in what money is not a recipe for a happy marriage, IMO. If she’s not contributing to the household in some significant way, e.g., maybe she does the lion’s share of the housekeeping work (does she?), that’s an issue; but if she’s maintaining your household in non-financial ways, it seems weirdly punitive to say she doesn’t get to share in the financial fruits of the household. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/164 "2023-05-25T12:46:36Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Secondly you are excluding a gigantic middle. Akaj can tell his wife (I would suggest as an absolute last resort) that he is putting his earnings into a personal bank account from which a certain amount will (for example) go direct to retirement savings for them both. I dunno, that looks suspiciously like: > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Is Akaj supposed to tell his wife that his opening a personal banking account for 90% of the household’s income is a great idea because a court wouldn’t force him to give her money? This nuclear option is all about Akaj taking the household money, denying Mrs. A access, and unilaterally deciding how it should be spent. Whether a court of law would step in after Mrs. A sues Akaj is beside the point. That sort of dispute doesn’t get solved in civil court, it gets solved in divorce court. We all know that many married couples have personal bank accounts and/or joint accounts, but these are willing open choices by the couple. They are not one sided decisions by the primary earner to deny an unwilling spouse access to funds. It’s not a nuclear option that might just save the marriage, it’s a nuclear option that blows the marriage to smithereens. It’s a fair option if he’s decided on divorce, and wants to protect assets from a spouse who would spend everything, not just the 50% they would be entitled to in the divorce. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/165 "2023-05-25T12:47:04Z")
What I think you’re missing here is that a strong belief in one type of woo (no scare quotes for me, thanks) often is accompanied by or develops into an attraction for other types of woo (look up [crank magnetism](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Crank_magnetism)). Such a person on developing an illness may invest considerable time and money in pursuing useless and even dangerous alt med remedies, while ignoring evidence-based medicine that could be life-saving. Glomming onto health woo may make them feel fulfilled and happy, but the outcome is liable to be poor. The second and more obvious point is that when one’s avocations put a severe strain on a relationship (financial or otherwise), it’s no longer just a matter of indulging what makes that person happy. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/166 "2023-05-25T13:01:16Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I dunno, that looks suspiciously like: Sorry I edited my post (but, strangely, well before you posted) after I realised I had erroneously made it sound like I meant that the OP keep the rest of the money. Read my post again now and you will see what I’m getting at. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/167 "2023-05-25T13:48:12Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > What I think you’re missing here is that a strong belief in one type of woo (no scare quotes for me, thanks) often is accompanied by or develops into an attraction for other types of woo (look up [crank magnetism](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Crank_magnetism)). I was thinking about a different [Rational Wiki article](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Slippery_slope). ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/168 "2023-05-25T13:57:43Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Read my post again now and you will see what I’m getting at. Understood, it’s rather more agreeable with the edit. With my job, for example, I have a percentage automatically taken out for a 401k, it never even hits our joint bank account. Since it’s my wages, I’m fully in control of that percentage, and I’m in control of what the 401k is invested in. It may still take some doing to get agreement for a homegrown solution similar to my standard corporate retirement planning, but it isn’t inherently unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/169 "2023-05-25T14:02:27Z")
Don’t forget [this one](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Crystal_woo). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/170 "2023-05-25T14:04:18Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Don’t forget [this one](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Crystal_woo). I explicitly disagree and think that for this discussion @Akaj should forget that one, for the reasons I’ve already stated. This ain’t your marriage, Jack, it’s his, and if he’s going to be as sneeringly contemptuous of her beliefs as you are, it’ll be fatal to that marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/171 "2023-05-25T14:33:46Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Reading a few words typed by a single member of a couple, and declaring their marriage over? Fuckin hell. It’s why I don’t discuss my relationship on these boards. Years and years ago I posted about my grief when my husband was not ready to have a baby. We started talking about having kids when we were 23 and at 29 he was in a horrible PhD program and still didn’t have the bandwidth. Some of the things people said to me were bonkers. I was on my last year of graduate school and someone suggested I quit graduate school and have a baby since I was clearly not anything but a “dilettante” social worker, many recommended I give him an ultimatum, and leave him if he refused, though I had no intention of abandoning an otherwise solid relationship, and I was also declared abnormal for not being willing to leave him and have a baby with someone else. It was really eye-opening, in the sense of many people in relationship threads just cannot see anything in the OP but what they went through personally. When I look at the OP I see a lady with an overspending problem. I don’t see any evidence of a mental illness, just a different (and admittedly woo) way of looking at the world, but her particular beliefs are beside the point. She needs to recognize that her “energy” is not the only energy that matters. I see no reason to throw out the whole woman. (Still married… Going on 17 years now. It did take forever to have the kid, we were 37 when **Wee Weasel** was born, but he is the best kid, and he was worth the wait. And my husband was right, it was better to wait. I was unable to see that at the time because of my longing to have a child. I was a lot less emotionally mature then.) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/172 "2023-05-25T14:41:16Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > You have provided no cite to the effect that, for a married person to withhold their earnings, during marriage, is theft. The cite you have provided strongly implies the contrary, given that it is careful to qualify its statement about marital property by reference to divorce. i have provided a cite that his earnings are likely marital property, which she has rights to. Perhaps the technical legal term isn’t “stealing” but “inappropriate control”. But “stealing” is also a common word with a common meaning. When I get a phone call telling me my windows computer needs to download this software right now, I ask the guy on the phone “does your mother know you steal from old ladies for a living?”, even though it’s probably technically fraud and he probably commits it against old men and mentally disabled people of all age. Also, as others have pointed out, taking all their money and putting it into an account that only he has access to, without her prior approval, is likely to lead to divorce, and then the divorce court will give a lot of it back to her. I suppose if divorce is immanent and he is afraid she will squander all of their money before they can split up, it might be a reasonable thing for him to do. But it really doesn’t sound like that’s where they are. And as a woman, I get really upset by men talking about their right to control “their” marital income because they think their wife is doing something frivolous. So yes, I am perhaps not responding completely rationally, because y’all are talking about evil misogynist stuff that makes me see red. Even though I have been the primary earner for most of my marriage. Note that the OP isn’t doing that. He has a complaint that might be completely reasonable, and all his posts sound perfectly fine from the perspective of a guy who is frustrated with his interactions with his wife. I think there have been three constructive suggestions: 1. try to talk about your underlying needs in her language. That means talking about the OP’s need to feel financially secure, rather than presuming that they are on the same page about current spending vs. savings. 2. consider a family budget with each party have some money they can spend on stuff they want without judgement, and with limits on how much that is. 3. consider therapy. An objective third party may be able to help them navigate these shoals. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/173 "2023-05-25T14:43:09Z")
And in the spirit of reading into things, OP, does your wife by any chance have ADHD? This often goes hand in hand with overspending so it may be worth looking into. One thing I didn’t know before I was diagnosed is that you don’t have to be hyperactive to have ADHD, there’s also an Innatentive type which might also involve hyper-fixation on a specific interest and maybe getting distracted by $350 crystal balls and lacking the impulse control not to buy them. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/174 "2023-05-25T14:48:02Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > try to talk about your underlying needs in her language. That means talking about the OP’s need to feel financially secure, rather than presuming that they are on the same page about current spending vs. savings. If I can add onto this: talk about it _without assuming your needs are more valid_. Consider how someone might respond to two approaches: 1. “I can understand spending on dinners and concerts and such, but these woo nonsense purchases? They’re threatening our financial security. If you’re not bringing in enough money to pay for them, you should stop spending money on them.” 2. “I understand that this is important to you. Your happiness is important to me–but also, financial security is important to me. Can we talk about a way that we can both get our needs met here?” The first approach is almost certainly going to lead to a fight. There might still be a fight with the second approach, but it’s a lot likelier IMO to lead to a productive conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/175 "2023-05-25T14:50:52Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > It was really eye-opening, in the sense of many people in relationship threads just cannot see anything in the OP but what they went through personally. FWIW, there are a few folks on the board who give excellent relationship advice, and you’re one of them. Even when it’s not about my relationship, I always feel wiser for reading what you write. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/176 "2023-05-25T15:11:11Z")
The roadmap/blueprint I learned for communication is to say something positive, use I statements, show understanding, share responsibility (PIUS-Positive, I, Understanding, Sharing). Start with a genuine positive statement about the person; take ownership of your feelings by using “I” statements instead of accusatory “you are doing this/that, etc.”, demonstrate empathy by using understanding statements, and then, in the solution, involve yourself in it so you have skin in the game, and it’s not just a unilateral “you have to change!” You are part of the situation, and it is helpful to acknowledge it. Statement number two has most of that there. I personally find breaking down what to say in this way helpful, and since learning it a couple years ago, I’ve found it has demonstrably led to better communication with my wife, when I slow myself down to employ it. Just keeping in mind those points and stopping to think about what you want to say and how you want to say it has saved me a lot of grief. It’s of course not guaranteed to work, but I do think it gives you a better chance than many approaches. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/177 "2023-05-25T15:16:09Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I just checked Amazon. I found a nice set for about $7 and it includes a sheet “explaining” the meanings of the cards. I think I spent around $5 dollars for a nice set when I lived in Germany decades ago and that set came with instructions for playing card games, nothing to do with woo. But those don’t have the right psychic energy. You need to buy my special cards that have been kept in a pyramid, and next to a pure crystal of dolomite. These enfused cards are the only ones that work, and I’ll let you have them for 3 payments of $78.95. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/178 "2023-05-25T15:22:04Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > i have provided a cite that his earnings are likely marital property, which she has rights to. You have provided a cite for the proposition that a situation that hasn’t and hopefully never will arise would give rise to rights that don’t currently exist. That is, you have provided a cite that refutes your own wrong contention that such a right could be infringed now. There are no indications you recognise the breathtaking irony of leveling an accusation of theft against someone who would preserve potential marital property by saving it for their mutual retirement, from their spendthrift spouse who would dissipate it unilaterally. The sexism in your and other posts is bemusing. The situation faced by the OP, and the possible responses being discussed here, can occur and are applicable to situations where the genders of those involved in any given role are interchangeable. Plenty of wives have had exactly comparable problems with husbands and had similar advice given. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/179 "2023-05-25T15:22:43Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > OP, does your wife by any chance have ADHD? She’s never been diagnosed with that, but she has struggled with depression and currently takes Prozac. I suspect with no evidence whatsoever that many of her impulsive online purchases (not the $350 crystal ball) are basically little dopamine hits that give her a boost when she’s feeling down. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422/180 "2023-05-25T15:26:10Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > The sexism in your and other posts is bemusing. Feel free to ignore my advice, but this is maybe “take a breath and step back” time. That’s all I’ll say on the subject. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-losing-my-sanity-my-marriage-or-both/984422.md?page=10)