# Am I missing something, or is Spider Robinson an untalented hack? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 9, 2002, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-or-is-spider-robinson-an-untalented-hack/123155 "2002-08-09T15:06:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hometownboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5e9695/32.png) [@Hometownboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hometownboy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-or-is-spider-robinson-an-untalented-hack/123155/21 "2002-08-13T12:15:18Z")
From my humble opinion, looks as if you are grumbling about the shapes of the sand grains on the beach instead of enjoying the view. Hard to imagine anyone missing the powerful emotional impact of that particular story, unless, possibly, they are quite young and/or sheltered to the point to which they have not rammed up against real pain in their life. ---
**Author:** ![partly\_warmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@partly\_warmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/partly_warmer)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-or-is-spider-robinson-an-untalented-hack/123155/22 "2002-08-13T12:34:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeff \* > \*\*…Describing the audience, he writes that “the silence…was something you could have driven rivets through”, and that they held their breath. Then they “were shocked speechless”, which was odd since no one had been speaking in the first place. Then they “wanted to cry, wanted to shout, wanted to run forward…and no one made a sound”. So they “waited in fearful silence”. Then the song ends, and everyone (wait for the kicker) sits silently…He also describes it as dysharmonic twice, having apparently exausted his thesaurus. > \*\* At a guess, Robinson is being flip. He’s emulating the Dashiell Hammett style, that is, detectives under the influence, making facile observations about people/society/the world. There was a thread month ago were folks generally agreed his penchant for alcoholic behavior was wearing very thin. His first books about Callaghan, however, were fairly innovative, and upbeat. He may be less of a hack, than someone who’s lost their spark. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-or-is-spider-robinson-an-untalented-hack/123155/23 "2002-08-13T17:29:43Z")
I love the man’s writing, but it’s very distracting to me the way he turns all his books into travelogues of cool places he’s been, or cool places he wishes existed, or that he puts all his friends from fandom (or his biggest fans, anyway) into his books… Oh, wait, that’s Larry Niven. Anyway. I admire anybody who can start a novel off with the line, “I hadn’t meant to kill the cat.” ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-or-is-spider-robinson-an-untalented-hack/123155/24 "2002-08-13T23:11:59Z")
**The Law of Conservation of Pain** Ah, yes, I thought that story was really profound when I was 15 or so. Same with \*\*Star Dancer.[\B] The reason I didn’t like the former was that it hit me that the woman’s face had been healed, her inner anguish was gone, her life could begin again, etc. etc., so instead of a whore in a brothel she could be…a whore in a brothel? Unless I’m misremembering the story. But Robinson has some cool characters, they just start to become too miraculous as time goes on. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-or-is-spider-robinson-an-untalented-hack/123155/25 "2002-08-13T23:20:27Z")
Sorry about the bolding. Preview is my friend, preview is my friend…and I meant that his more powerful characters seem to become more and more all-knowing and wonderful. It’s like the Lord Peter Wimsey stories, only they’re so much better written. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-or-is-spider-robinson-an-untalented-hack/123155/26 "2002-08-13T23:20:27Z")
Sorry about the bolding. Preview is my friend, preview is my friend…and I meant that his more powerful characters seem to become more and more all-knowing and wonderful. It’s like the Lord Peter Wimsey stories, only they’re so much better written. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-or-is-spider-robinson-an-untalented-hack/123155/27 "2002-08-15T07:56:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hometownboy \* > \*\*Hard to imagine anyone missing the powerful emotional impact of that particular story, unless, possibly, they are quite young and/or sheltered to the point to which they have not rammed up against real pain in their life. \*\* It’s hard to miss the emotional content of the story when Robinson repeatedly kicks me in the nuts (metaphorically speaking) in his attempts to make his point. So you love Robinson like the second coming; great, that’s your business. However, next time you feel the need to make such asnine comments about my life because I don’t share that same opinion, do myself and others a favor and keep them to yourself. **partly\_warmer** - That the narrator is being flip is a possibility which I hadn’t considered before, but seems fairly unlikely. The narrator and the tone of the story just seem too sincere. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-or-is-spider-robinson-an-untalented-hack/123155/28 "2002-08-15T13:05:00Z")
Robinson is capable of great writing; some of his early works are deservedly classics. However, his numerous flaws as a writer have now drowned out his talents. Said flaws being: Robinson’s not very creative: by his own admission, he borrows many of his ideas from either other writers or his earlier work. If you’ve either read enough of Robinson’s work or SF in general, you start spotting his sources. Robinson can’t let a good idea go: admittedly, other writers have the same flaw. Robinson will create a good setting or cast of characters and use them to good effect. But then he will continue to use them until the average reader is sick of them. Robinson is not a prolific writer: not necessarily a flaw in general - respected authors like Vernor Vinge, John Varley, or Donald Kingsbury are also noted for the sparse quantity of their output. But in Robinson’s case, it’s a problem. He’s written how his inability to write as needed has put financial pressure on him. While he hasn’t said so, it’s easy to surmise he’s sometimes had to release second rate work for the sake of a sale. Robinson is stuck in 1969: the man still apparently thinks that Hippies are great, the Beatles are the best band ever, Nixon and Kissinger are evil, drugs are our friend, don’t trust the pigs, the US should get out of Vietnam, folk music is groovy, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Hometownboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5e9695/32.png) [@Hometownboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hometownboy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-or-is-spider-robinson-an-untalented-hack/123155/29 "2002-08-16T02:45:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeff \* > \*\* > > So you love Robinson like the second coming; great, that’s your business. However, next time you feel the need to make such asnine comments about my life because I don’t share that same opinion, do myself and others a favor and keep them to yourself. > > \*\* My sincere apologies **Jeff**. I can see in retrospect that what I said was pretty cutting. What moves me may not move you, granted. And it was wrong of me to impute motive. :smack: It was the evident anger you felt over Mr. Robinson’s work that cranked me up. I should have responded to your words, not with an ad hominum argument. Mea maxima culpa. ---
**Author:** ![partly\_warmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@partly\_warmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/partly_warmer)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-or-is-spider-robinson-an-untalented-hack/123155/30 "2002-08-16T02:58:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Little Nemo \* > \*\*Robinson is stuck in 1969: the man still apparently thinks that Hippies are great, the Beatles are the best band ever, Nixon and Kissinger are evil, drugs are our friend, don’t trust the pigs, the US should get out of Vietnam, folk music is groovy, etc. \*\* Wait a minute, which about this do you think is wrong? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-or-is-spider-robinson-an-untalented-hack/123155/31 "2002-08-16T12:02:12Z")
I dunno. I just started reading him when I got “Callahan’s Crosstime Saloon” for Christmas. I really enjoyed it. Then again, I have friends who think Richard Bach is the most wonderful miraculous author to come along ever ever, and I **think** , when I hear this, “Yeah, I thought he was deep when I was 15 and by the way, he and Leslie Parrish got DIVORCED.” However, I only **think** it, because there’s nothing more rude or elitist (imnpfho) than telling someone “Oh yeah, I liked that when I was a dumb kid who didn’t know better.” Fornicate all over your person. _“I remember enjoying his earlier stuff when I was fourteen.”_ _“I liked Spider Robinson a quarter of a century ago… when I was a teenager.”_ _“Ah, yes, I thought that story was really profound when I was 15 or so.”_ “I used to like him” or “When I first started reading him I liked him” is one thing; these statements imply that anyone who **still** likes him has the emotional maturity of a teenager, and I really find that kind of phrasing unnecessary. I wouldn’t have mentioned it, but that’s three people who felt the need to share that they are now FAR too mature to enjoy/take anything from Mr. Robinsons’s stories any more, and the nose-in-the-air attitude bugs the shit out of me. I’m 32. I didn’t read him 'til I was 31. That doesn’t make me immature for being touched by 'em; it just makes me a new reader of this author. So can it. ---
**Author:** ![dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorkusmalorkusmafia/32/7266_2.png) [@dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorkusmalorkusmafia)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-or-is-spider-robinson-an-untalented-hack/123155/32 "2002-08-16T14:47:41Z")
I read Callahan’s Chronicles recently. I coned indifferent to his authoring prowess. He had interesting thoughts in it and it was nice to be able to read a chapter willy nilly but for the most part his ideas didn’t seem that new nor did they seemed to be based on science. The character development was good, the lack of different settings started getting to me though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-or-is-spider-robinson-an-untalented-hack/123155.md?page=1)