# Am I nationalist? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 10, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-nationalist/824317 "2018-11-10T17:58:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-nationalist/824317/21 "2018-11-10T22:23:48Z")
[This may help you decide.](https://smbc-comics.com/comic/an-important-distinction) ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2018, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-nationalist/824317/22 "2018-11-10T22:46:48Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I have concerns mainly political about the Latin Americans political culture, I feel it is unstable and having too much effect on American politics and changing our culture in a way I don’t like. I can’t make any sense of this. If you’re trying to say that Democrats are trying to make this country into Venezuela, that’s just a stupid right-wing Trumpian lie that has no basis in reality. If you are concerned that the government is closer to being a corrupt Latin American style dictatorship than it ever has been, I agree. But dude, that threat’s coming from inside the house. > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I give heavy consideration to my neighbors but would put my own country first as I feel every country should do. Sometimes the best thing that a country can do for itself is to help its neighbors. It’s actually pretty stupid to put ever-increasing amounts of money into catching and detaining and deporting illegal Mexican immigrants while enacting policies that hurt Mexico economically, increasing the flow of illegal immigrants. I think one of the most effective ways to combat illegal immigration is to make Mexico and Central America a better place to live. I think that there is an element in this country that confuses bullying with strength. Bullying is actually a sign of weakness and poor moral character. There are solutions to be found that are rooted in kindness if we are strong and moral enough. And I’d like to see my country stop moving away from that ideal ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2018, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-nationalist/824317/23 "2018-11-10T23:31:12Z")
Various right-wing organisations in this country blame immigrants for just about everything, from overstretched A&E departments to unemployment. They believe what they say, but the facts do not support them. Of course, the whole thing is hugely complicated, but the evidence does point to immigration being a generally Good Thing. Immigrants have already invested a great deal of time, effort and money to migrate and they tend to be young and hard-working. In fact there are many trades that depend on imported labour to survive. > [@](#): > > Official data suggests that foreign nationals pay more in income taxes and national insurance contributions than they receive in tax credits and child benefit > > The Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts that higher net migration reduces pressure on government debt over time. This result is based on the fact that incoming migrants are more likely to be of working age than the population in general > > [The Fiscal Impact of Immigration in the UK - Migration Observatory - The Migration Observatory](https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/) ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-nationalist/824317/24 "2018-11-11T05:18:01Z")
George Orwell had some thoughts on nationalism: > [@George Orwell](#): > > By “nationalism” I mean first of all the habit of assuming that human beings can be classified like insects and that whole blocks of millions or tens of millions of people can be confidently labelled “good” or “bad.” … By “patriotism” I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseperable from the desire for power. [From George Orwell’s Notes on Nationalism](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/June_25) I dunno, do you desire power? Do you label millions “good” or “bad” based on the country they were born in? I suspect you don’t! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-nationalist/824317/25 "2018-11-11T15:47:06Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > But history has also shown that the US can take in people from places with cultures that are non-modern - that believe in child marriage, slavery, and a husband’s right to sex at any time - and have those people fully Americanized within a few generations and without influencing the greater culture towards their view. Immigrants to America in modern day have been less prone to crime than the natives and more willing to take jobs that the natives won’t. > > But at the same time, we see immigrants coming into Europe and raising the crime rate, continuing child marriages and pederasty against the laws - a thing that we don’t see here. And that’s not just right-wing bollocks from European nationalists, though I’m sure that they’re making it seem like a more world-ending matter than it is. You are aware than 18 US states currently have no absolute minimum age requirement for children to get married, right? If the girl’s pregnant or a judge and the child’s parents agree, the normal age limits can be waived. And that’s not just an irrelevant loophole no-one’s bothered with because no-one’s using it, 6 [12 year old children](http://apps.frontline.org/child-marriage-by-the-numbers/) have married, legally, in the US, since 2000. I’d check you actually have moral high ground before claiming it… ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-nationalist/824317/26 "2018-11-11T17:30:34Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Various right-wing organisations in this country blame immigrants for just about everything, from overstretched A&E departments to unemployment. They believe what they say, but the facts do not support them. Many cities in the Midwest are initiating programs to attract immigrants in order to bolster their economies, especially in urban cores which are dying. Trump’s self-serving propaganda, mindlessly aped by his toadies, [is contradicted by the facts](https://www.newamericaneconomy.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/NAE_Great-Lakes_V9_FINAL.pdf); > [@New American Economy report](#): > > The reality, however, reflects a very different state of affairs. While the region indeed lost more than one million working-class jobs and saw real wages of workers with less than a bachelor’s degree fall by 6.4 percent between 2000 and 2015, immigrants have actually helped to revitalize and strengthen industries like manufacturing and healthcare, creating jobs for Americans that once seemed lost forever. In many vibrant Great Lakes metro regions, foreign-born residents have also helped offset decades of population decline, reinvigorating local economies with new businesses, an increased tax base, and consumer spending that has helped drive local growth. These experiences make a strong case that there is tremendous economic growth potential for those Great Lakes metro areas that embrace immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-nationalist/824317/27 "2018-11-11T21:15:19Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > Interesting theory **Sage Rat** but I think you’ve missed the mark. The problem countries like France are having (IMHO) with their immigrants has more to do with isolating and ghettoizing them than with attracting “bums”. This is an underappreciated factor in this debate. Unlike most of the countries that are having big problems with immigrants, in the US (and Canada, btw), immigrants are not only accepted, they’re welcomed, and encouraged to become full members of our society. In the US and Canada, you can move here, and learn to be American or Canadian. Lots of other countries, even fairly enlightened ones in some cases, don’t make that possible. You might be born in France, and live there your whole life, but you’ll never _really_ be French. ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-nationalist/824317/28 "2018-11-12T12:54:41Z")
The French are a deeply insecure people, probably because they have been invaded so much. Twenty Eight miles from France, in England, the idea of the ‘nation’ is rather different, probably because it is an island. England is a Mongrel nation. Formed out of ancient Celts, Romans, Saxons, Angles, Vikings, Normans and many others since that have washed up on these shores since the ice age. Here is Eddie Izzard, trying to explain how it came to be. Travel to other countries and you soon learn to appreciate the good and bad about the country of your birth. No nation has all the answers. The nation state is a deeply flawed concept. Be proud of the good things, but don't ignore or try to justify all the bad stuff because of a misplaced sense of pride. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-nationalist/824317/29 "2018-11-12T15:16:51Z")
I think the Nationals may fare better next season, but only if they keep Harper. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-nationalist/824317/30 "2018-11-13T05:47:27Z")
Nationalist = Nazi. There’s really no debate about that among normal people. It is not at all the same as patriot. EDIT: Just this moment heard someone on the news calling nationalism a perversion of patriotism. That’s a good summing up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-nationalist/824317.md?page=1)