# Am I owed anything? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 4, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-owed-anything/601844 "2011-11-04T13:52:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bannedit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Bannedit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bannedit)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-owed-anything/601844/1 "2011-11-04T13:52:22Z")
Inspired partially by comments in this thread… [.001%? (One servicemember's response to OWS) - Great Debates - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=630140) and in other comments over the past 10 years. Is there a certain amount of respect that I should have bestowed upon me simply because I am a member of the military? Is there a difference between military members that actually serve in combat and those that push paper all day? Is my job any different than a guy that picks up my trash or works at the mall? Should I only expect a paycheck and a retirement because that was what I signed up for? Is there a difference between service members and policemen or firemen? What about teachers or doctors? I know what I think… I’m looking for your thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-owed-anything/601844/2 "2011-11-04T14:15:53Z")
As a non military person, I do give a certain amount of respect that chose to serve our nation in that way. That respect extends to people that push paper, service equipment, or hold a rifle on the line. Regardless of their motivation for signing up, they are serving our nation, and as a citizen I believe that courtesy and respect is due. Similarly, I extend that same sort of respect to policemen, firemen, emergency medical people, and teachers. The professions they have chosen also have a community service aspect that we as citizens/residents, etc. greatly depend upon. I always try to go out of my way to say an extra “thank you” to people that serve in those capacities. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-owed-anything/601844/3 "2011-11-04T14:20:57Z")
I have respect for your service; even a desk jockey is setting aside a portion of his life and day-to-day liberty to be under the command of the military. There’s also the potential to be put in harm’s way. However slight, it’s greater than the chance of me being sent to a combat situation. I feel much the same about civilian “first responder” style careers. That said, wearing a uniform is no protection against being a basic douchebag and while I might have a more favorable first impression upon hearing someone is serving in the military, it’s something they need to keep earning. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-owed-anything/601844/4 "2011-11-04T14:39:08Z")
I have respect. But on the other hand: What is the true motivation that most people join the military? Is it mostly for altruistic reasons? Or is it for the college tuition? I struggle with this sometimes. One conclusion I have definitely come up with: If you’re getting shot at, for whatever reasons, you deserve respect. But as stated above, that respect is conditional. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-owed-anything/601844/5 "2011-11-04T14:59:51Z")
There is a certain amount of respect you should be given because you’re a basically decent human being, regardless of what your job is. You do a job that’s sometimes difficult and dangerous and dirty for what is (arguably) the common welfare, but so do garbage collectors, and the people who work at the water treatment plant, and animal control officers, and all sorts of other people who are not on our “this person makes sacrifices for our well-being” radar and thus don’t get any special level of respect. All they get is a paycheck, no discounts or special recognition days; I don’t think most of them are even eligible for a pension. Also, it makes my Vietnam Vet dad seriously uncomfortable when people get all ass-licky about his service. It was something that had to be done, so he did it. End of story. To him, it’s on a level with people making a production about how he flushed the toilet or took out the trash. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-owed-anything/601844/6 "2011-11-04T15:35:54Z")
You get a little extra respect initially, but your words or actions can quickly confirm or reverse that. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-owed-anything/601844/7 "2011-11-04T16:42:51Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > There is a certain amount of respect you should be given because you’re a basically decent human being, regardless of what your job is. You do a job that’s sometimes difficult and dangerous and dirty for what is (arguably) the common welfare, but so do garbage collectors, and the people who work at the water treatment plant, and animal control officers, and all sorts of other people who are not on our “this person makes sacrifices for our well-being” radar and thus don’t get any special level of respect. All they get is a paycheck, no discounts or special recognition days; I don’t think most of them are even eligible for a pension. > > Also, it makes my Vietnam Vet dad seriously uncomfortable when people get all ass-licky about his service. It was something that had to be done, so he did it. End of story. To him, it’s on a level with people making a production about how he flushed the toilet or took out the trash. But the difference is that soldiers are much more likely to die than a garbage collector or even an animal control officer. Plus being in the military is a 24/7 job, often far from home whether or not you’re in a war, and it doesn’t pay very well. So our gratitude as civilians is a way to make up for that. It’s part of the benefits package, so to speak. But notice that most people say “Thank you for your service,” not “thanks for existing.” FTR, I believe that firefighters are deserving of the same respect for an equally dangerous job for equally crap pay. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-owed-anything/601844/8 "2011-11-04T16:57:47Z")
Yes and no. We refer to non-conscripted troops as “professional soldiers”, and the implication of _professional_ is that you shouldn’t expect adulation for doing a job. Thus, I would _prefer_ that we pay military personnel something better approximating their market value (and that might mean reducing the salaries of people like nuclear sub engineers and technicians who can make a zillion dollars in the private sector based on their military experience) and treat them the same as everyone else, respect-wise. I’m not sure if that’s a logical position or even a practical one given that the job is somewhat unique, but it’s how I feel. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-owed-anything/601844/9 "2011-11-04T17:02:07Z")
Most of the people I’ve known who joined did it either because they were rapidly heading downward in their lives, or because it was their only way to pay for college. In the first case, no. Since I assume a LOT more people are in the latter pool, my default is that they do get a little bit of “sorry our society is so messed up that you had to agree to get shot at in order to get an education” -type respect. Other than that, I don’t afford them any extra consideration, but that’s just because a lot of people have jobs that put them in shitty situations in order to do their job properly (I work in biomedical research at a children’s hospital, and I think I’d rather have a chance of having to shoot someone than to know my job was guaranteed to involve giving kids chemo or doing things to monkeys day after day). ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-owed-anything/601844/10 "2011-11-04T17:13:57Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > You get a little extra respect initially, but your words or actions can quickly confirm or reverse that. Thank you for succinctly saying what I was struggling to express. TL/DR version: +1 ---
**Author:** ![SSG\_Schwartz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SSG\_Schwartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SSG_Schwartz)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-owed-anything/601844/11 "2011-11-04T17:24:28Z")
I’ll be honest, I joined for a paycheck. My life was not going downhill, and I already had a degree. I needed something that had good medical benefits too. So, I don’t really feel l deserve anyone’s respect or am owed anything. I never ask for a military discount, because I really don’t feel right about that. I always politely accept the thanks from people who offer it, because I realize they are saying thank you to the uniform, not necessarily the person who wears it. SFC Schwartz ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-owed-anything/601844/12 "2011-11-04T17:27:29Z")
[Funny Onion article.](http://www.theonion.com/articles/i-support-the-occupation-of-iraq-but-i-dont-suppor,11125/) > [@](#): > > It is ridiculous that my “heart” is somehow morally or ethically obliged to “go out” to the troops. In fact, had the troops not been put to productive labor by the sheer might and institutional authority of the U.S. military, a good number of them would be sitting around bars, drinking and gambling. In short, we shouldn’t view the troops as objects of sympathy, because their very contribution to our society is their ability to carry out simple commands on a battlefield. “Wow. You’re a great American. This nation owes you a huge debt. Now shut the fuck up and let me do my job!” –Les Grossman, Tropic Thunder 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-owed-anything/601844/13 "2011-11-04T17:28:11Z")
Thank you for your service - to _everyone_ who brings honor to the uniform. Regards, Shodan Proud Father ---
**Author:** ![Bannedit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Bannedit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bannedit)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-owed-anything/601844/14 "2011-11-04T17:28:45Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > snip… > > That said, wearing a uniform is no protection against being a basic douchebag and while I might have a more favorable first impression upon hearing someone is serving in the military, it’s something they need to keep earning. I see this as applying to anyone. Sort of like innocent until proven guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Bannedit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Bannedit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bannedit)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-owed-anything/601844/15 "2011-11-04T17:36:47Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I have respect. > > But on the other hand: What is the true motivation that most people join the military? Is it mostly for altruistic reasons? Or is it for the college tuition? > > I struggle with this sometimes. One conclusion I have definitely come up with: If you’re getting shot at, for whatever reasons, you deserve respect. But as stated above, that respect is conditional. I went into the military for the job and a paycheck, but over the years my reasons for staying changed. I look at someone that comes in for 4 or 6 years just for the education no different than someone that is in it for “Duty, Honor, Country”. I’m not much for college and don’t use all of the benefits available to me. I’m sometimes embarrassed by the military advertising the education and the bonuses. I know that it gets people in the door and is a big sell so they don’t have to talk about bullets and bombs, but I don’t think it should be THE selling point. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-owed-anything/601844/16 "2011-11-04T17:44:37Z")
> [@](#): > > But the difference is that soldiers are much more likely to die than a garbage collector or even an animal control officer. . While this is certainly true in many cases, professional soldiers (with the exception of certain roles, such as mile clearance or riflemen) are often not in the top ten most dangerous jobs. Fishermen, roofing contractors, long-distance lorry drivers, loggers all have a higher death-on-the-job rate than soldiers. Firefighters in the UK used to push for pay increases on the basis that their work was dangerous, but fishermen and roofers are much more likely to be killed. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-owed-anything/601844/17 "2011-11-04T17:47:01Z")
> [@Bannedit](#): > > Is there a certain amount of respect that I should have bestowed upon me simply because I am a member of the military? No. Not at all. Quite the opposite, in fact. > [@](#): > > Is there a difference between military members that actually serve in combat and those that push paper all day? No, not really (I’m assuming you mean in terms of the amount of respect they deserve) > [@](#): > > Is my job any different than a guy that picks up my trash or works at the mall? Yes. Dustmen and mall workers aren’t _willing_ participants in the military-industrial complex, with all that that entails. > [@](#): > > Should I only expect a paycheck and a retirement because that was what I signed up for? Yes > [@](#): > > Is there a difference between service members and policemen or firemen? Yes. I don’t like the police any more than I like soldiers, but I can at least respect them a little. Firemen, quite a bit of respect. > [@](#): > > What about teachers or doctors? Oh yes. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-owed-anything/601844/18 "2011-11-04T17:55:28Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > But the difference is that soldiers are much more likely to die than a garbage collector or even an animal control officer. No, the real difference is that I and millions of other Americans are far more likely to die if those people stop doing their jobs than if soldiers stop doing theirs. And nobody _ever_ says “Thank you for making sure there’s not rotting garbage festering in the streets and breeding disease,” or “Thanks for making sure I don’t get dysentery from drinking contaminated water,” or “It sure is a great thing you’re doing, making sure people don’t get mauled by aggressive wandering animals that might be carrying rabies.” ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-owed-anything/601844/19 "2011-11-04T18:17:52Z")
You should expect to get whatever the deal was that you made with the US government. If you joined the military with the idea that you would become some sort of special citizen, better than the civilians then no, that would be incorrect. The father of a good, old friend is a Medal of Honor winner. Never, as long as I have know the man, has he suggested by word or deed that he should be treated as anything other than a normal citizen, except for within military circles of course. If being an American citizen, equal to everybody else, is good enough for him it should be good enough for every service person. Police, fireman, dogcatchers and DMV workers included. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-owed-anything/601844/20 "2011-11-04T21:43:08Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > No, the real difference is that I and millions of other Americans are far more likely to die if those people stop doing their jobs than if soldiers stop doing theirs. And nobody _ever_ says “Thank you for making sure there’s not rotting garbage festering in the streets and breeding disease,” or “Thanks for making sure I don’t get dysentery from drinking contaminated water,” or “It sure is a great thing you’re doing, making sure people don’t get mauled by aggressive wandering animals that might be carrying rabies.” That’s not exactly correct. If garbage started piling up or rabid animals started running loose…some enterprising entrepeneur would start charging people to pick up their garbage and collect the wild animals. The free market would take care of it. While there are mercenary soldiers that can be hired, the concept of a nations army for hire doesn’t really fit the model. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-owed-anything/601844.md?page=2)