# Am I Republican or Democrat?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-republican-or-democrat/507886
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [August 27, 2009, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-republican-or-democrat/507886 "2009-08-27T07:50:37Z")
**Posts on this page:** 11
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-republican-or-democrat/507886/101 "2009-09-01T13:06:51Z")
> [@usar\_jag](#):
>
> Please quote the Constitution where it separates government from any church or religion. You may have to look a while, but at least you will have the side benefit of actually reading the U.S. Constitution.
Article VI, last sentence: “The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”
And of course, the first part of the First Amendment: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;…”
What do I win? In all seriousness, I have heard actual claims (from the loony right) that Article VI REALLY means either “You can’t test for a specific kind of religion (but atheists and agnostics need not apply)” or “You can’t test for a specific kind of Christianity (but all other religions can/should be barred)”.
About as often as I hear claims (from the loony left) that the Establishment clause clearly and unambiguously means that the government cannot ever do anything that touches religion ever–in reality, it kinda hinges on what the word “establishment” means.
As a final comment, our Founding Fathers really loved their motherfucking commas. If the second amendment was punctuated like the first (with a couple of semi-colons separating ideas) maybe it’d make some unambiguous sense.
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### Author:  [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-republican-or-democrat/507886/102 "2009-09-01T14:06:32Z")
> [@freedumb2003](#):
>
> democrats believe people are stupid, weak and unable to help themselves – ESPECIALLY women and minorities.
No, it’s more that Democrats consider people **worthy.**
> [@](#):
>
> They believe that it is only through The Ruling Elite and the Hand Of Government that any good can be had.
Maybe some. I’m a believer in the Great Man theory of history myself, & a bit influenced by revolutionary history, so I tend to see government as the effective use of power. But there’s a lot of good that comes from other institutions, & most Democrats would admit this. I suspect active Democrats don’t really want a Ruling Elite, hence the “Democrat” name.
> [@](#):
>
> They believe that those who make good life decisions are to be exploited to pay to support those who did not.
Well, yeah. But we wouldn’t put it that way.😛
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-republican-or-democrat/507886/103 "2009-09-01T14:21:39Z")
I have decided to be born the son of a multibillionaire:
[“If you would look at this locally, it’s always distributed,” Glattfelder said. “If you then look at who is at the end of these links, you find that it’s the same guys, [which] is not something you’d expect from the local view.”](http://www.insidescience.org/research/study_says_world_s_stocks_controlled_by_select_few)
[Backbone of complex networks of corporations: The flow of control](http://arxiv.org/abs/0902.0878v2)
That is a _GOOD_ life decision.
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### Author:  [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-republican-or-democrat/507886/104 "2009-09-01T14:45:42Z")
> [@bri1600bv](#):
>
> Here’s another one. Republicans find out that the CIA has been “torturing” terrorists and that said torture uncovered numerous plots and saved many American lives.
I would love to get a factual answer. I’ve asked in GQ ([one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=515850)and [two](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=431878&highlight=effective)) for two years for any hard evidence showing the torture got results. I’ve gotten some interesting bites, but no direct hits. Feel free to chip in.
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### Author:  [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-republican-or-democrat/507886/105 "2009-09-01T15:50:00Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#):
>
> Disagree. Let’s go back to the text: If I read that in a magazine, I wouldn’t know what the hell the writer was getting at. My best guess would be that it’s bad poetry.
>
> A broad claim,
> which is demonstrably false,
> in an empirical sense,
> the right of the people to keep and bear Arms,
> shall not be infringed.
>
> My claim here is narrow: the text of the 2nd amendment is ambiguous, which is quite awkward and somewhat unfortunate.
OK, it’s poorly worded. That wasn’t his point. It’s in the middle of a list of protections of \*individuals \*from the _government_. Imagine if a recipe went:
Beat 2 egg whites until frothy.
Mix the dry ingredients.
Only use synthetic engine oils after your engine has 75,000 miles.
Preheat the oven to 375 degrees…
A protection of \*state governments \*from the _federal government_ in that list makes no sense.
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### Author:  [@usar\_jag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usar_jag)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2009, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-republican-or-democrat/507886/106 "2009-09-01T23:54:38Z")
> [@Zeriel](#):
>
> What do I win? … As a final comment, our Founding Fathers really loved their motherfucking commas.
You’ll win nothing, and like it! 😉
That was my point–the U.S. Constitution has never overtly required a separation of Church and State. Even though I tend to lean towards being a strict construtionist, I do view Article VI as prohibiting religious tests, but you cannot exclude agnostics/atheists/any other non-Christian religions. You are absolutely right about needing to maintaining some degree of separation, because if you don’t keep that in check, you will run into some establishment problems.
Also, I am delivering a lecture tomorrow where I’ll have to refer to the U.S. Constitution–I would like to use your last qoute as an aside. I’ll be sure to use proper attribution.
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### Author:  [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-republican-or-democrat/507886/107 "2009-09-02T00:35:50Z")
> [@bup](#):
>
> OK, it’s poorly worded. That wasn’t his point. It’s in the middle of a list of protections of \*individuals \*from the _government_. Imagine if a recipe went:
>
> Beat 2 egg whites until frothy.
> Mix the dry ingredients.
> Only use synthetic engine oils after your engine has 75,000 miles.
> Preheat the oven to 375 degrees…
> A protection of \*state governments \*from the _federal government_ in that list makes no sense.
Oh, so if you wanted to assert a collective right, you can’t because the remainder are all individual rights? That makes no sense.
It’s a list not a set of directions. Laundry lists can be varied.
One carton of milk
Buy socks
Drop off car to replace carburetor
Work out at gym
Again though, I’m not saying here that it’s necessarily a collective right for the purposes of this thread – I’m saying the text is poorly worded and ambiguous. OTOH, a constitutional historian or an historical linguist might very well have some insight into the matter. At any rate, we have to interpret the constitution we have, not the constitution we want.
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### Author:  [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-republican-or-democrat/507886/108 "2009-09-02T01:14:54Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#):
>
> It’s a list not a set of directions. Laundry lists can be varied.
>
> One carton of milk
> Buy socks
> Drop off car to replace carburetor
> Work out at gym
That’s a laundry list?
I tend to agree that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual right to bear arms. However, I do not see why the Second Amendment guarantees anybody the right to bear any arm their little heart desires, any more than the First Amendment guarantees me the right to shout “Fire!” in a crowded armory.
I absolutely believe that there are common sense restrictions on all our basic rights, and that the Second Amendment Fundamentalists do not recognize this is a failure to think it through on their parts.
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### Author:  [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-republican-or-democrat/507886/109 "2009-09-02T03:00:28Z")
> [@usar\_jag](#):
>
> Also, I am delivering a lecture tomorrow where I’ll have to refer to the U.S. Constitution–I would like to use your last qoute as an aside. I’ll be sure to use proper attribution.
Go for it!
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### Author:  [@usar\_jag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usar_jag)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-republican-or-democrat/507886/110 "2009-09-02T18:07:21Z")
Your quote made me laugh and wonder what Samuel L. Jackson would be like as a Constitutional Law Professor…
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### Author:  [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2009, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-republican-or-democrat/507886/111 "2009-09-03T13:43:34Z")
> [@usar\_jag](#):
>
> Your quote made me laugh and wonder what Samuel L. Jackson would be like as a Constitutional Law Professor…
I’m tired of all these motherfuckin’ commas in my motherfuckin’ bill of rights!
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