# Am I Satan, or just a garden variey psychopath? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 6, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656 "2011-01-06T20:53:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656/181 "2011-01-09T23:15:19Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > Not sure where people are getting the idea that this woman’s ‘too reliant on her family’ from- if my brother could fix my car, I’m sure I’d ask him too. I’m only a few years younger, but I’m sure my parents worry about me when I do something they think is a bit weird (ie. all the time 😉 ). > > Doesn’t mean they can stop me from doing stuff they don’t like, and it doesn’t say anywhere in the OP or follow ups that they could stop her either, there’s just people saying they SHOULD stop her. Doesn’t sound like she’s a totally innocent, naive, delicate little flower to me from the description… > > FWIW I know two people, both male, who have done something similar to this, and both wound up with it going a bit odd, followed by them slinking back home and refusing to talk about it. Still, doesn’t mean it always goes wrong, just means being careful (and considerate) is the way to go. Hope you have a good weekend 🙂 It struck me as odd that she was telling her family members that she was heading out for a booty call like that. I mean, i’d have no problem asking my brother to help fix my car if that’s something he could do, but I sure as hell wouldn’t feel the need to tell him where I was taking it. Or my parents, for that matter. Especially if, as was mentioned somewhere upthread, they were particularly religious. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656/182 "2011-01-09T23:19:20Z")
If she’s aware that he reserved a single love-nest-for-two; if she’s fine with haring off to spend a night with a virtual stranger in said love-nest-for-two; I say we all stop worrying about what her plan B should be. We should stop worrying about her “virtue” because SHE isn’t worried about it, possibly not HAVING any “virtue”. It’s still creepy, but if both parties are OK with it, well, there are people like that, so let the chips fall where they may… I do think it’s kind of comical her family is in on it, her brother is fixing up her love buggy to Destination Romance, and absolutely hilarious that Romeo is hopping on a bus - to ride 6 hours to said Destination Romance! The only thing better would be hitchhiking to this elegant rendevous. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656/183 "2011-01-09T23:44:24Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > II’m also thinking of a [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=463922)where he said he thought “You have beautiful eyes–can I touch them?” was a good pickup line (it’s straight out of Neil Strauss’s the Game, a book on pickup artists). Oh. He’s read _The Game_. Why didn’t someone just say so? ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656/184 "2011-01-10T00:04:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Because it shows decency, courtesy, respect and common sense. It’s not a given that this thing is going to work (once again - they are _complete strangers who have never met_), and the gentlemanly thing to do is not assume sex as a given and arrange for an optional arrangement. “Put out or leave” is not a gentlemanly arrangement. Of course sex is a given. Why else would you agree to stay in a hotel room with someone for a weekend? Do you think that this woman, having agreed to stay in a single hotel room with **tdn** , is going to be surprised if he wants to have sex with her? I’m going to go out on a limb here and assume that they’ve discussed the topic of sex, and are both fully aware that that’s one of the things that will be happening over this weekend. Again, if she doesn’t like the idea of that, she can very easily just not go in the first place. If she needs an alternative because she gets there and finds out that **tdn** is a grungy hose beast or something, she can presumably take care of herself and doesn’t need him to have pre-reserved an escape room for her. I don’t see how it’s un-gentlemanly or un-chivalrous for him to take her at her word when she says she wants to spend the weekend in a hotel having sex with him. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656/185 "2011-01-10T01:16:55Z")
Sex is never a given. That’s ridiculous. Especially for total strangers who have never met. Saying she doesn’t have to go at all is disingenuous. The point is that she may change her mind after she meets him in person. I still don’t know why you’re so offended at the idea of giving her more comfort. If she doesn’t want the room, so what? What does it hurt to offer? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656/186 "2011-01-10T01:24:17Z")
There’s something that has been on my mind regarding this thread and I haven’t quite been able to properly verbalize it. But, I figure I may as well try, so here I am. In regard to the whole, “She can just leave” point: I think that we’re all disregarding the fact that it’s a whole lot easier to “just leave” a coffee shop than it is a hotel room. Now, I’m in NO WAY suggesting **tdn** would do anything immoral or illegal to his friend to convince her to do something she didn’t want to do. . . but I feel like the women posting in this thread might have an idea in regard to what I’m talking about. There’s pressure. Is it all **tdn** ’s fault and she’s innocent? Of course it’s not that _at all._ And I think that’s why so many of us are surprised that she agreed to this whole situation— like I said, it’s a lot easier to just leave a coffee shop than a jacuzzi hotel room. Everything I’m getting at is totally psychological, in her (the general female in this situation being her, I mean) head. I realize I’m not explaining this the best, so hopefully someone a little more eloquent gets me and can elaborate better :). ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656/187 "2011-01-10T01:24:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Sex is never a given. That’s ridiculous. Especially for total strangers who have never met. > > Saying she doesn’t have to go at all is disingenuous. The point is that she may change her mind after she meets him in person. I still don’t know why you’re so offended at the idea of giving her more comfort. If she doesn’t want the room, so what? What does it hurt to offer? I don’t know why you keep insisting that I am “offended” when all I am doing is disagreeing. And yes, when you have scheduled a meetup with a love interest you met on the Internet, and you have mutually agreed that you will be sharing a hotel room for the duration of this meetup, sex is a given. No, that doesn’t mean that you HAVE to have sex once you show up. But it does mean that both people involved have discussed sex, want to have sex with each other, and fully anticipate having sex with each other. Why is the onus on **tdn** to reserve a special escape room for this girl, anyway? If she wants to feel more comfortable or secure and having an extra room would serve this purpose, can’t she simply make the reservation herself? I get the sense that you and some others in this thread are working from the base assumption that this girl is being taken advantage of, and therefore needs to have concessions made to her comfort in light of this. I don’t see it. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656/188 "2011-01-10T01:31:03Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > There’s something that has been on my mind regarding this thread and I haven’t quite been able to properly verbalize it. But, I figure I may as well try, so here I am. > > In regard to the whole, “She can just leave” point: I think that we’re all disregarding the fact that it’s a whole lot easier to “just leave” a coffee shop than it is a hotel room. Now, I’m in NO WAY suggesting **tdn** would do anything immoral or illegal to his friend to convince her to do something she didn’t want to do. . . but I feel like the women posting in this thread might have an idea in regard to what I’m talking about. There’s pressure. Is it all **tdn** ’s fault and she’s innocent? Of course it’s not that _at all._ And I think that’s why so many of us are surprised that she agreed to this whole situation— like I said, it’s a lot easier to just leave a coffee shop than a jacuzzi hotel room. > > Everything I’m getting at is totally psychological, in her (the general female in this situation being her, I mean) head. I realize I’m not explaining this the best, so hopefully someone a little more eloquent gets me and can elaborate better :). Yeah…All I can figure is, they met on some kind of fetish site, and this weekend has been planned for the sole purpose of indulging said fetish. (Her being religious and sheltered does not rule that out.) So her wanting a separate room would be like saying she didn’t want to be there at all. **If** that’s the purpose of the weekend, it makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656/189 "2011-01-10T01:34:38Z")
You can’t say that sex is a given, but that either of them can change their mind. If either of them can change their mind (and the odds of that are pretty good in this kind of situation), then sex is not a given. It’s neither smart, nor gentlemanly to assume sex as a given. There is no "onus,"but it’s only _good manners_ to give her a comfortable option. I don’t get why that bugs you so much. How is it any different from paying for her dinner? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656/190 "2011-01-10T01:35:35Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Why is the onus on **tdn** to reserve a special escape room for this girl, anyway? From my perspective, I would tell him to consider it simply because he’s the one who posts here and she doesn’t (as far as I know). Diosa, I definitely understand what you mean by pressure. Heck, some women feel pressured into sex if you buy them dinner. She IS an adult and she needs to take care of herself. That’s not tdn’s job. But I hope he’s not as clueless about women and relationships as he sometimes presents himself to be. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656/191 "2011-01-10T01:45:49Z")
If this girl were a friend of mine (much less the Celtling) I would be reserving a room in the same B&B n case she needed me. I woudl also drive over with her. Not to stop her, not to chaperone, but just to be certain that my friend had an option if she needed it. And to be sure there is someone around who will respond correctly to the wrong kind of screams. I think this trip is enormously risky for both of them. For all he knows, her family is actually providing her with ether and a getaway car. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656/192 "2011-01-10T02:10:43Z")
God help us. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than **tdn** in the depths of an ether binge. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656/193 "2011-01-10T02:14:50Z")
> [@Katriona](#): > > It struck me as odd that she was telling her family members that she was heading out for a booty call like that. I mean, i’d have no problem asking my brother to help fix my car if that’s something he could do, but I sure as hell wouldn’t feel the need to tell him where I was taking it. Or my parents, for that matter. Especially if, as was mentioned somewhere upthread, they were particularly religious. I agree. I don’t want to be mean to **tdn** , but I hope his ladyfriend is sane and not as impaired intellectually as she’s coming across. It’s one thing to drive 6 hours to a bed-and-breakfast in Podunk USA (in a clunker to boot) to meet a guy you’ve only known from the internet for a few weeks. That alone is not very smart, but there’s been dumber things before. But why would she tell her brother this??? Surely there are about ten dozen other reasons why she would want her car repaired; getting some strange nookie from a dude who showed her his penis online and travels by Greyhound should rate at the bottom of that list. If she comes from a conservative background, she should have anticipated her brother’s reaction. I can’t imagine any self-respecting woman coming out with this to her Mormon family. _Unless_ she’s thinking that this is a love thing and not just sex. And if she’s thinking this is a love thing…well, let’s hope their impression of each other remains the same in-person. Awkward night otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![pricciar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@pricciar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pricciar)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656/194 "2011-01-10T02:14:52Z")
Congrats on the happy news, Vinyl Turnip. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656/195 "2011-01-10T02:36:27Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There is no "onus,"but it’s only _good manners_ to give her a comfortable option. I don’t get why that bugs you so much. How is it any different from paying for her dinner? To me it’s like buying a second extra backup dinner in case the first dinner doesn’t work out. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656/196 "2011-01-10T02:42:20Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > To me it’s like buying a second extra backup dinner in case the first dinner doesn’t work out. I think it’s more like making a backup reservation at a steak house in case your date isn’t, when faced with a pile of curry, as into Indian food as she hinted to on the phone. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656/197 "2011-01-10T02:44:30Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > God help us. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than **tdn** in the depths of an ether binge. Just posting to let you know I got the reference. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656/198 "2011-01-10T03:02:58Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I don’t think it’s about age either. If a friend of mine–younger or older–said they were doing this (that is, meeting someone she hadn’t met face to face before in a motel) and that the guy didn’t really want a second room…I’d be begging her not to. This seems a bit unfair to **tdn**. He said above that she picked the hotel and the room. Not wanting to rent a second room because she picked this one strikes me as a bit different than not wanting to rent a second room so as to limit her options. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I also can’t help getting annoyed that actual, factual women on the Dope tell **tdn** that he’s coming off creepy and he essentially says, “No, trust me, I’m awesome.” I hear you, but can you see why **tdn** would be getting annoyed that he keeps saying that the actual, factual woman he’s going to be meeting seems to have a different view of him, but many people here don’t seem to accept that? Certainly, this is not how I first met Mrs. Tildrum, and it seems nutty to me. Nutty people need love too, though, and if they can find each other, then it may not be our place to try to substitute our judgment. Note too that he has taken some of the advice he got in this thread and made some changes to his date planning, so it’s not like he’s not listening. > [@Gestalt](#): > > This is veering into Pit territory, but since your memory must be assuaged: > > [This](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9569778&postcount=45) is probably my favorite post > And [later](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9712161&postcount=128) **SWB** expresses her frustrations at **tdn’s** pushiness > [This](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=538434) is another example, where **tdn** keeps insisting that waitresses like it when he flirts > Finally, the [latest](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=581138&highlight=kind) example. > > Honestly, I really do like **tdn’s** non-dating posts. But he seems aggressive, if nothing else, with the dating posts and also stubborn, and I find it annoying. And as long as I seem to be defending **tdn** , I think it’s worth noting that in your first example, he doesn’t actually flirt with, hit on, or otherwise verbalize any interest in the woman in the story, and in your fourth example, the woman tells him she’s not interested and he backs right off. He’s grandiose to be sure, but “aggressive” in the sense you’re suggesting seems like more of a stretch than you may be making it out to be, and it seems out of place here, where if anything he seems to be trying hard to be responsive to what he’s hearing from her. As far as the family dynamic goes, maybe I’m overgeneralizing from my own experience, but my family is local and I talk to one or another of my relatives almost every day. When I’m planning to go somewhere, I tell them. I’m not asking permission; I’m just sharing part of my life. If they’re freaked out, they’ll tell me in a caring way, and I’ll respond likewise, maybe adjusting my plans, maybe not. I can see where this sort of interaction could be misused into something infantilizing, but I guess I’m saying that it doesn’t have to be. I’m fortunate to be friends with my family, and for the most part, we deal with each other as adults. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656/199 "2011-01-10T03:13:26Z")
Of course, if this planned weekend ends in tragedy, in addition to being horrified, I’m going to feel like an idiot. Stay safe and smart, **tdn**. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656/200 "2011-01-10T03:57:48Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > From my perspective, I would tell him to consider it simply because he’s the one who posts here and she doesn’t (as far as I know). > > Diosa, I definitely understand what you mean by pressure. Heck, some women feel pressured into sex if you buy them dinner. > > She IS an adult and she needs to take care of herself. That’s not tdn’s job. But I hope he’s not as clueless about women and relationships as he sometimes presents himself to be. That and he’s the one who made the arrangements, and offered to pay for the whole thing. **Dio** – what reference? 😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-satan-or-just-a-garden-variey-psychopath/566656.md?page=11)