# Am I stupid or just not hardworking enough? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 2, 2005, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-stupid-or-just-not-hardworking-enough/319685 "2005-09-02T02:42:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![stargazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@stargazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stargazer)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-stupid-or-just-not-hardworking-enough/319685/21 "2005-09-02T19:50:18Z")
I remember my first day of college. I had an 8am class, Survey of British Literature: Beginnings through Milton. I’d been a good student (except in math) all through high school, and had taken English AP so I didn’t have to take English 101. In high school, on the first day of classes, they handed out a “green sheet” that you were to take home to your parents so they knew who your teacher was, the aim of the class, expectations, etc. Just one piece of paper. My English Survey prof handed out a _twenty-five page syllabus_. I about peed my pants. I knew right then that I should just go home and go to community college, because there was no way I would survive. And this was just my first class of the day! Well, I survived – I got a D on the first paper, but that prof is the best writer on campus and I learned a lot from him. And that syllabus was mostly notes and extra curriculum he wanted us to have, but not to have to buy. All this to say, good luck, **ExtraKun** – even if this test wasn’t your finest work, you will go far with your attitude of hard work. And I hope you did well on that test, after all! ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-stupid-or-just-not-hardworking-enough/319685/22 "2005-09-02T20:50:02Z")
> [@ExtraKun](#): > > If you are hardworking and if you are intelligent, then you will pass the test. > If you do not pass the test, then you are not hardworking or you are not intelligent. > Extrakun (most likely) did not pass the test > Extrakun is not hardworking or is not intelligent. > Extrakun thinks he is hardworking > Therefore, Extrakun is not intelligent. > (Or maybe Extrakun’s hard work isn’t _enough_) **ExtraKun** needs to work on this proof. 😉 Seriously, you’re in discrete math and you did hundreds of questions from the textbook. You’re smarter than the vast majority of people, and you’ve probably got a better imagination, too. So, now that I’ve blown some sunshine up your ass, go talk to the prof. I cannot stress this strongly enough. Go talk to the prof. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-stupid-or-just-not-hardworking-enough/319685/23 "2005-09-02T22:38:55Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > I cannot stress this strongly enough. Go talk to the prof. Just to reiterate one more time – what he said. The related benefit is that profs love to see that you are interested enough to come and see them. Try to make it during office hours though. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-stupid-or-just-not-hardworking-enough/319685/24 "2005-09-03T00:03:35Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > Doing well is college classes is as much about learning the system as it is about learning the material. > > Another thing that needs to be mentioned is that it is very common for a Prof to make older exams available for study purposes. Sometimes they hand them out and sometimes they are on file somewhere. If the prof didn’t mention it one way or another, **ASK**! The professor did hand out the solutions to the previous short quizs…and boy, were those quizs easy! Questions taken directly from the lecture notes, easy application of De’Morgan’s theorem, questions phrased in a straightforward manner…everyone tried the previous papers and said, “Man, this quiz is going to be a piece of cake.” But the actual quiz we had is a real killer. **Re: Talk to the professor** I will do that, but first, I’ll need some questions, and I rather not touch my Discrete Maths textbook this weekend. And the questions in the textbooks are a cakewalk compare the ones my professor thrown at me. Where can I find tough discrete maths questions so that I would know what to ask? ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-stupid-or-just-not-hardworking-enough/319685/25 "2005-09-03T00:08:04Z")
> [@Podkayne](#): > > If you can’t get the help you need, then for the love of God, **drop the class** , and take it some other semester, preferrably with a different professor. It may be painful to admit defeat, but it’s much better than spending the semester wasting your effort on a lost cause and destroying your confidence in yourself. > > Good luck. My heart goes out to you. There are two professors in charge of the course. As mentioned, it is _confusing_ when one uses a method that the others don’t allow. The professor who did the test was quite adamant about his choices - only his methods would be allowed, and that’s that, and so those of we us who are under the other proffessor’s class are a bit short-changed. I cannot drop it now. Our damned bloody system only allow you to drop courses 10 days after term starts. If you do drop then, you will get a bloody F on the record card, and that is averaged into your grade. There were cases of mass protests when the teaching was _really_ bad - two years back there was this mass complains by all the students because they couldn’t understand the professor’s accent and the professor did nothing to help, and the topic was Calculus. So they petitioned the administration, and they was allowed to drop the subject. Not this case too. And the professor has been doing this for years, so I doubt I would get another difficult one even if I do stall. ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-stupid-or-just-not-hardworking-enough/319685/26 "2005-09-03T00:25:53Z")
> [@ExtraKun](#): > > The professor who did the test was quite adamant about his choices - only his methods would be allowed, and that’s that, and so those of we us who are under the other proffessor’s class are a bit short-changed. So let me get this straight: Professors A and B are teaching different sections of the course. It is possible to solve a certain type of problem using method A or method B. Professor A demonstrates how to do the problems using method A and highly discourages method B. Professor B mentions method A, but primarily uses method B. Come the test, those of you in Professor B’s section are asked to do the problems not by method B, the way you have LEARNED to do them, the way you have regularly seen them demonstrated, but by method A, in which you have had little instruction. It is expected that your scores will be similar to the scores of students in Professor A’s section, who have always been learning and using method A. This is not reasonable. Neither is it reasonable to feel bad because you were unable to meet unreasonable expectations. That logic work for you? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-stupid-or-just-not-hardworking-enough/319685/27 "2005-09-03T00:34:32Z")
Just want to reiterate that there’s no point in beating yourself up before you see how well you did. I can remember taking an Economics test in college that I was absolutely convinced I had failed. On the way home I had to stop to sob about how I just couldn’t handle college. I ended up getting a B. I was reminded of this incident a few months ago when my parents told the story of how my father told my mother, his then fiancee, that the wedding was off because he would not be graduating since he had failed his exams. Of course he passed with honors, and everything worked out, except of course that post-exam, pre-grade panic turned out to be hereditary. And if it turns out that you aren’t quite grasping the concepts yet, others in this thread have offered great advice for getting back on track. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-stupid-or-just-not-hardworking-enough/319685/28 "2005-09-03T02:40:18Z")
Ah, first freshman exam? Okay, then let me tell you a different story. Freshman physics at the University of Iowa. First exam. At the end of the test period, I didn’t really have any real feel for how well I’d done, so I was kind of in limbo. I didn’t think I’d done a terrible job, but I was _sure_ I hadn’t aced it. I could live with a B, I told myself. Maybe even a C. It would just mean I had to work harder. Exams were handed back in class the next week. Clutching my bluebook to my chest, I returned to my seat, opened the front cover and discovered I’d gotten a 60/100. My heart plummeted. A _D_? I had no idea that I’d done that badly! Obviously I had seriuosly underestimated college. They kept telling us it was going to be lots and lots harder, but I didn’t believe them! What the hell had ever given me the idea that I could be a physics major? My god, I was some kind of a joke, some idiot teenage girl from Dubuque who thought she could be a scientist. I seriously contemplated leaving right then, slinking back to my dorm room, calling my mother and begging her to come get me. Then the professor put up a transparency showing the curve. Of the 400 students in the class, my score was the second highest. I tell you this not to brag, since 394 of those students were engineering majors, and therefore did not count. Being second out of the six physics majors in my year who hadn’t had AP Physics is . . . eh . . . not so much the big deal. But the point is, you’re not supposed to be able to get 100%. Nobody in the class did. The big question is how you measured up to everyone else. So, yeah, your plan is good. Just mellow out this weekend, and see whatcha got next week. Be sure to tell us as soon as you know! ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-stupid-or-just-not-hardworking-enough/319685/29 "2005-09-03T04:26:48Z")
> [@ExtraKun](#): > > Where can I find tough discrete maths questions so that I would know what to ask? From the sound of it, the ones on the test would work pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-stupid-or-just-not-hardworking-enough/319685/30 "2005-09-06T13:01:18Z")
> [@ExtraKun](#): > > **Re: Talk to the professor** > > I will do that, but first, I’ll need some questions, and I rather not touch my Discrete Maths textbook this weekend. And the questions in the textbooks are a cakewalk compare the ones my professor thrown at me. Where can I find tough discrete maths questions so that I would know what to ask? Well, I don’t know what school you’re at, and I may have missed it in the thread, so if you’re at one of the super-serious research schools where students are an interruption to the job of publishing, then disregard this particular remark: Even if you don’t have specific questions, I encourage you to stop by and say “Hi.” Showing interest and willingness to learn the subject is definitely valuable; however, just getting to know the prof. is important, too. I think they’re a lot more likely to care about you if you’ve taken the chance to stop by and chat. Your situation sounds particularly messed up. Are they professors, or graduate assistants that are giving conflicting methods? ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-stupid-or-just-not-hardworking-enough/319685/31 "2005-09-06T14:15:21Z")
> [@ExtraKun](#): > > There are two professors in charge of the course. As mentioned, it is _confusing_ when one uses a method that the others don’t allow. The professor who did the test was quite adamant about his choices - only his methods would be allowed, and that’s that, and so those of we us who are under the other proffessor’s class are a bit short-changed. > > I cannot drop it now. Our damned bloody system only allow you to drop courses 10 days after term starts. If you do drop then, you will get a bloody F on the record card, and that is averaged into your grade. There were cases of mass protests when the teaching was _really_ bad - two years back there was this mass complains by all the students because they couldn’t understand the professor’s accent and the professor did nothing to help, and the topic was Calculus. So they petitioned the administration, and they was allowed to drop the subject. > > Not this case too. And the professor has been doing this for years, so I doubt I would get another difficult one even if I do stall. Go to the department head, preferably with several others. I mean it. Something is severely messed up if there are two different sections with two different professors taking the same test and there are restrictions like that. ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-stupid-or-just-not-hardworking-enough/319685/32 "2005-09-06T14:32:55Z")
> [@ExtraKun](#): > > I used to have the belief that, well, if you are hardworking enough, and have decent intelligence, you can pass any test. I just got a bad feeling that I have just experienced a paradigm shift. > > You see, I just have my discrete mathematics test, and I am not feeling too good about it. 4 questions, forty minutes, and I couldn’t complete all of them and is quite positive that I got 3 of them totally and utterly wrong. > > Well _deep breath_ > > I go to all the lectures, take down tonnes of notes, is always present for all the tutorials, attempt the tutorials before plopping down to the classroom, did hundreds of questions within the textbook… > > …and I still can’t do the test. > > If you are hardworking and if you are intelligent, then you will pass the test. > If you do not pass the test, then you are not hardworking or you are not intelligent. > Extrakun (most likely) did not pass the test > Extrakun is not hardworking or is not intelligent. > Extrakun thinks he is hardworking > Therefore, Extrakun is not intelligent. > (Or maybe Extrakun’s hard work isn’t _enough_) > > _SIGH_ > I hate tests. I never worked hard in school. In college, I only read the text books that interested me. I still managed a 3.9 GPA But I avoided math of any sort. I’m sure I’d be just like you in math. Here it is 32 years later and I still have that anxiety dream about going into math class and realizing it was the final & I’d never been in the classroom before. Don’t let it wear on you. You’re still a good and intelligent person… say it after me…I’m smart…say it… Ah, nevermind, go eat some chocolate, you’ll feel better. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-stupid-or-just-not-hardworking-enough/319685/33 "2005-09-06T14:35:50Z")
Or maybe ExtraKun has just learned a valuable lesson that in spite of all the “you can do anything if you dream hard enough” crap people hear all their lives, people do have limitations. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-stupid-or-just-not-hardworking-enough/319685/34 "2005-09-06T18:29:09Z")
> [@picunurse](#): > > But I avoided math of any sort. I’m sure I’d be just like you in math. Here it is 32 years later and I still have that anxiety dream about going into math class and realizing it was the final & I’d never been in the classroom before. We math people have the same dream. I had it last night about an English class, not for the first time. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-stupid-or-just-not-hardworking-enough/319685/35 "2005-09-06T19:16:58Z")
> [@ExtraKun](#): > > There are two professors in charge of the course. As mentioned, it is _confusing_ when one uses a method that the others don’t allow. The professor who did the test was quite adamant about his choices - only his methods would be allowed, and that’s that, and so those of we us who are under the other proffessor’s class are a bit short-changed. When I read this, I can’t help but think that you really don’t understand the material. It doesn’t make much sense, because either professor is going to understand logic and clarity. I bet if you really understood what was going on, you wouldn’t think that they were in disagreement. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-stupid-or-just-not-hardworking-enough/319685/36 "2005-09-07T15:23:24Z")
There was a feedback session for the module today, so we managed to clarify some of our doubts. **Re: The Problems with the Professors** The situation is we have one lecturer for the course, while there are different tutors. So what is hapening is the tutor is using one _style_ pf proving while the lectuerer is using another. For example, my tutor allows (and teaches us) the following style: Suppose that x is an element of set A interesects set B. Therefore, x belongs to A and x belongs to B, by the definition of set intersection. The lecturer seems to be insisting on nothing but mathematical symbols (which I couldn’t re-produce here). That was clarified today - he only insisted on a particular style for solving propositonal logic - because it is easier to for him to mark the papers and easier to understand (from his point of view). Otherwise for proving other things, as long as the steps are clearly labelled and systematic, he will allow it. The marks for the test is not in yet. But I did learn something that let me sigh in relief. That test is only 10% of the overall grade, so I guess I better take that as a good benchmark of where I stand…and study harder and smarter! ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-stupid-or-just-not-hardworking-enough/319685/37 "2005-09-07T16:47:11Z")
> [@ExtraKun](#): > > The lecturer seems to be insisting on nothing but mathematical symbols (which I couldn’t re-produce here). That was clarified today - he only insisted on a particular style for solving propositonal logic - because it is easier to for him to mark the papers and easier to understand (from his point of view). Ah, well there is good reason for that other than the professor’s convenience. Imagine submitting a spanish essay that said something like, “No then the Spanish word for ‘I speak’ Espanol.” Being strict in learning to write with the proper symbols will save you headaches down the road. BTW, kudos to me for guessing that it might be a GTA who was throwing you off. 😃 -js\_once was a bonehead GTA\_africanus [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-stupid-or-just-not-hardworking-enough/319685.md?page=1)