# Am I the one who is being obtuse (re the term "Indian")? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 23, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606 "2008-01-23T01:47:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606/41 "2008-01-23T15:02:23Z")
For some reason, when I’ve seen you specify E. Indian, I’ve always assumed that that meant from the eastern portion of India, rather than meaning just from the country of India. I don’t have strong feelings on the other questions, except to say that I think that many Americans have weird hang-ups about ethnicity. This isn’t about racism, or anything (not that people don’t have hangups there, as well), just that sometimes people identify awfully strongly with places that their families left several generations ago. Not that it’s a major portion of daily life, but sometimes it is kinda fun to discuss. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606/42 "2008-01-23T15:04:10Z")
[QUOTE=Anaamika] **OtakuLoki** , respectfully I disagree with your point that calling myself “Indian” is inappropriate. Yeah, I can call myself “Punjabi” which as you say is way more accurate but you would not believe the amount of people who have no idea where Punjab is or what it is. Well, maybe you would - I’m weak on geopgraphy myself. But everybody has at least some vague idea where India is. [/QUOTE] I never meant that I thought it was inappropriate. Imprecise is all I was trying to suggest. (Of course, I’ll say the same thing about China, and many African nations too: that modern nationality, or even regional identity, serves to obscure as much truth as it reveals.) And I’m enough of a curmudgeon that if your audience doesn’t know whom a Punjabi might be, then you can explain that you’re an Indian. But, I’ll admit that I’m not always big on the social niceties, so your choice may well be the more politic one. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606/43 "2008-01-23T15:07:21Z")
[QUOTE=Eureka] For some reason, when I’ve seen you specify E. Indian, I’ve always assumed that that meant from the eastern portion of India, rather than meaning just from the country of India. I don’t have strong feelings on the other questions, except to say that I think that many Americans have weird hang-ups about ethnicity. This isn’t about racism, or anything (not that people don’t have hangups there, as well), just that sometimes people identify awfully strongly with places that their families left several generations ago. Not that it’s a major portion of daily life, but sometimes it is kinda fun to discuss. [/QUOTE] I’ll admit to having something of a hangup about my ethnicity. Not sure if hangup is the word, but close enough…but I was born in India! I lived there four years before I was brought here. The US is my country…but I am Indian too, no doubt about it. **OtakuLoki** , you’re a curmudgeon? :dubious: If so, you’re the nicest one I’ve ever met. ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606/44 "2008-01-23T15:10:04Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] I thought the notion that “Indian” was applied to the people living here at the time of Columbus in error because he thought he had made it to India was wrong. Didn’t is refer to people _in dios_, or “of God”? Or is that a false legend? [/QUOTE] I’m pretty sure that’s a false legend. “of God” in Spanish would be “de Dios.” “In” is not a Spanish word. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606/45 "2008-01-23T15:12:31Z")
My time in high school and the like got me accustomed to thinking of Indian as people from the subcontinent, and childhood taught me Indian meant people in the Americas when Columbus came. I generally use Native American to refer to ‘Amerinds’ (which I think is a pretty worthless term), but college in Oklahoma, where the concentration of Native Americans is about as high as you’ll find in the US has shown me that most, but not all, prefer to be called Indians. I think I’ll second the ‘homophone’ argument. Both are right to be called that. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606/46 "2008-01-23T15:15:25Z")
[QUOTE=Anaamika] **OtakuLoki** , you’re a curmudgeon? :dubious: If so, you’re the nicest one I’ve ever met. [/QUOTE] Thanks! Though, if you look at this [definition](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/curmudgeon) - it says stubborn, opinionated and ill-tempered. Doesn’t say that one must be _rude_, though. 😉 I save rude for special occasions. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606/47 "2008-01-23T15:23:31Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] But in the United States, the default assumption when somebody says Indian is going to be American Indian and that’s very unlikely to change. [/QUOTE] I think it has already changed – probably some time between 1975 and 1995. Except in places where there are a lot of Native Americans – mostly in certain parts of the West. – I believe that today in most contexts, “He’s Indian” or “I’m Indian,” would lead an American to think first of India, not American Indians. And the guy saying that you _must_ anticipate confusion? He’s being a jerk. I haven’t encountered any such confusion since the mid-1970s ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606/48 "2008-01-23T15:28:56Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] And the guy saying that you _must_ anticipate confusion? He’s being a jerk. I haven’t encountered any such confusion since the mid-1970s [/QUOTE] I was born in the mid-70s. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606/49 "2008-01-23T15:29:57Z")
[QUOTE=Eureka] For some reason, when I’ve seen you specify E. Indian, I’ve always assumed that that meant from the eastern portion of India, rather than meaning just from the country of India. [/QUOTE] Heh. When I hear East Indian, I assume it to mean those of Pakistani/Indian/Bangladeshi descent in the Caribbean area. The ambiguity has put on weight. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606/50 "2008-01-23T15:32:23Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] Heh. When I hear East Indian, I assume it to mean those of Pakistani/Indian/Bangladeshi descent in the Caribbean area. The ambiguity has put on weight. 😛 [/QUOTE] Wouldn’t they be West Indians? Or perhaps Indian West Indians? When I hear “East Indian”, I first think of the East Indies, i.e., Indonesia, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606/51 "2008-01-23T15:32:31Z")
Yes and No. While I haven’t had a ton of contact with American Indians, every single one that I’ve ever met used the term “Indian” to describe American Indians. If it’s good enough for them, it’s good enough for me. At one time, American Indians were (pretty much) the only “Indians” in town. That’s changed. I see Asian Indians all the time–American Indians, not so much–and if someone mentions “Indian,” I assume they mean Asian, unless there’s some prior context indicating otherwise. Just my 2¢. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606/52 "2008-01-23T15:34:46Z")
In Spain (sorry, we’re the ones who started the confusion) sometimes people say “Indian from Reference”. The reference can be “Indian from India”, “Indian from America”, “Indian from the movies” (with a gunslinger gesture, we’re not talking Light Brigade here), “Indian from the Peruvian Andes”… Unless the context is already very clear, which “Indian” is the default value is not clear. And in this guy’s case, I’d expect to hear “Cherokee”… I’d expect Indian for people like this friend of mine who knows that “one of my great grannies was indian, but no idea which tribe.” People who can be more specific usually are. After all, if someone asks me “where are you from?” I don’t answer “Europe”! PS: glad to see you, I’d been missing you. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606/53 "2008-01-23T15:35:11Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] Wouldn’t they be West Indians? Or perhaps Indian West Indians? [/QUOTE] I think that’s technically correct, but I grew up hearing it with East, so it’s stuck in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606/54 "2008-01-23T16:05:53Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] Wouldn’t they be West Indians? Or perhaps Indian West Indians? When I hear “East Indian”, I first think of the East Indies, i.e., Indonesia, etc. [/QUOTE] If I hear “West Indian”, I’d think someone from the West Indies. ---
**Author:** ![brad\_d](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@brad\_d](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brad_d)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606/55 "2008-01-23T16:29:28Z")
Here in California “Indian Gaming” (referred to as such) is the subject of four ballot propositions (94-97) in the upcoming election on February 5. All four are imaginatively titled “Referendum on Amendment to Indian Gaming Compact”, and they describe proposed changes to existing compacts with various tribes. The groups involved are (as labeled in the propositions): Pechanga Band of Luiseño Mission Indians ([94](http://voterguide.sos.ca.gov/title_sum/prop_94_title_sum.html)); Morongo Band of Mission Indians ([95](http://voterguide.sos.ca.gov/title_sum/prop_95_title_sum.html)); Sycuan Band of the Kumeyaay Nation ([96](http://voterguide.sos.ca.gov/title_sum/prop_96_title_sum.html)); and Agua Caliente Band of Cahuilla Indians ([97](http://voterguide.sos.ca.gov/title_sum/prop_97_title_sum.html)). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606/56 "2008-01-23T18:26:45Z")
> [@](#): > > I thought the notion that “Indian” was applied to the people living here at the time of Columbus in error because he thought he had made it to India was wrong. Didn’t is refer to people in dios, or “of God”? Or is that a false legend? I believe it was George Carlin who started this idea so take it for what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606/57 "2008-01-23T18:28:45Z")
> [@](#): > > When I hear “East Indian”, I first think of the East Indies, i.e., Indonesia, etc. > [@](#): > > If I hear “West Indian”, I’d think someone from the West Indies. And if I hear “Central Indian”, I’d think about the Colts and Dan Quayle. ---
**Author:** ![nashiitashii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7c8e57/32.png) [@nashiitashii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nashiitashii)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606/58 "2008-01-23T20:26:25Z")
I grew up in South Florida, so I generally grew up being exposed to Aboriginal American culture via specific tribes and became accustomed referring to people by their individual group, such as Miccosukee or Seminole. As for Indians of the South Asian variety, they’ve always been Indian (or, if from a neighboring country, whichever they specify). I do occasionally get people who are confused by which Indian I am mentioning, and clarify with the use of “from India”. It works reasonably well. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606/59 "2008-01-23T22:17:26Z")
He wants to be called something. I’ll call him that. The other thing is that the most militant American Indian Movement I’ve heard of is… The American Indian Movement. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606/60 "2008-01-23T22:31:24Z")
Try to throw around “Native American” in front of pedants on the subject like my husband and you’ll get a long explanation of how the American Indian peoples are not native to North America either. They just got here sooner. I don’t know details, it’s his particular axe to grind… arrow to sharpen… or some other less culturally insensitive metaphor. None of the guys I know who are American Indian has ever identified themselves to me as a “Native American”. They have uniformly identified first by tribe, then as Indian. I have enough to do what with giving severe looks to idiots who think it’s funny to distinguish between American Indians and East Indians by saying, “Dot, not feather. HAW! HAW! HAW!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-one-who-is-being-obtuse-re-the-term-indian/434606.md?page=4)