# Am I The Only Fool? (Question regarding Cecil.) **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [December 31, 2004, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392 "2004-12-31T07:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392/61 "2005-01-11T14:08:56Z")
> [@](#): > > And it’s real fun to see the Mods sucked into more and more loopy defences of the great one. Actually, Mods are forbidden from saying anything about Cecil that he hasn’t already said about himself. He definitely enjoys the discussions about his existence, etc. And that’s why he doesn’t settle the issue for once and all. Although, how could he? How could he prove his existence to your satisfaction, and still maintain his compulsive-obsession with privacy? A photocopy of a driver’s license? That would contain a photo. A picture of his voter’s registration card? So easily faked. And so on. The skeptics will never be convinced – kind of like those who think the moon-landing was faked, there’s no way to convince them otherwise. Spend millions of dollars sending a satellite around the moon to take pictures of the landing site, and they’ll just say that was faked, too. ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392/62 "2005-01-11T18:04:02Z")
Zotti wrote a book on urban planning??? That boy _definitely_ needs a break from Cecil. ---
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392/63 "2005-01-11T18:17:35Z")
> [@C K Dexter Haven](#): > > The skeptics will never be convinced – kind of like those who think the moon-landing was faked, there’s no way to convince them otherwise. No offense, but this is a terrible analogy. Imagine if the government had said, “We’ve put a man on Mars” and then steadfastly, patently refused to release even _one single photograph_ documenting the mission, instead getting all cutesy-poo and winking when questioned. People would be fools to believe it. **roger thornhill** said something above that bears repeating: > [@roger thornhill](#): > > Just amuses me that the world’s premier ignorance-busting portal should employ such energies in perpetuating a myth; and that the world’s premier evidence-demanding cite-driven cyber-college should ignore its own founding principles regarding its “founder”! ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392/64 "2005-01-11T19:21:58Z")
Cecil’s work is there for all to see. The fact that he values his privacy (perhaps obsessively so) should, it seems to me, be respected. > [@roger thornhill](#): > > Just amuses me that the world’s premier ignorance-busting portal should employ such energies in perpetuating a myth; and that the world’s premier evidence-demanding cite-driven cyber-college should ignore its own founding principles regarding its “founder”! Hey, **roger** , suppose that you help the “fight against ignorance” by posting on the internet your home address and phone number, your social security number, bank accounts, your picture, and your credit card numbers (with expiration dates.) After all, we’re all ignorant about those, aren’t we? Do you think that the “fight against ignorance” means a complete disregard for personal privacy? Oh, but wait, I forgot, you’re the famous **roger thornhill** alias “Mr Kaplan”, a government agent who moves from city to city, right? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392/65 "2005-01-12T00:06:15Z")
**Chorpler** , the type of studies you’re talking about can be done, but they are extremely tedious and time-consuming. First, you have to compile the documents, then (and this is the real trick) identify those usages which show significant variance, then start compiling the data. Since the first 2 Cecils wrote only for 2 or 3 years each, we have relatively little to go on there. Add to that the possibility that Ed may have used some of their unpublished columns during his tenure, and it gets murkier, although if we omit, say, the first 2 years of Ed’s columns we can probably eliminate this noise. If Mike, Dave, and Ed share a regional/social dialect, the task will be very difficult indeed, maybe impossible, especially since they are all writing “in character”. But if you did this and found, for example, that columns during Mike’s tenure often indicated disjuncts with a sentence initial “Now, --” but none of the Dave- or Ed-era columns did, you’d have something. Same with a preference for “for instance” over “for example” or anything else that empirically demonstrates a clear and statistically significant break between the sets. But you have to have several of these to get to the point where you’ll convince anyone that you’ve demonstrated something. Personally, I would LOVE to do exactly this dull, tedious, hours-and-hours-of-detail-work study. But I don’t have time. ☹ Especially since I have to finish my tables so **QtM** has a place to put his lamps! ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392/66 "2005-01-12T01:33:12Z")
Considering that no one in this thread has posted under their legal name, I’d say we call it a night. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392/67 "2005-01-12T02:05:17Z")
On December 10, 1990, the Wall Street Journal reported, > [@](#): > > Cecil Adams is a nom de plume, used by a succession of authors over the years. The current Mr. Adams is a 39-year-old Chicago editor named Ed Zotti, who works out of his home. “I don’t do 'Straight Dope” for the money," he says. “But it does pay the bulk of the mortgage.” ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392/68 "2005-01-12T02:12:23Z")
> [@](#): > > On December 10, 1990, the Wall Street Journal reported, > > Cecil Adams is a nom de plume, used by a succession of authors over the years. The current Mr. Adams is a 39-year-old Chicago editor named Ed Zotti, who works out of his home. “I don’t do 'Straight Dope” for the money," he says. “But it does pay the bulk of the mortgage.” I wonder what they cited as their source for this info??? ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392/69 "2005-01-12T02:45:27Z")
The quote is attributed to Mr. Zotti himself. Perhaps this was before the Cone of Secrecy descended. This stamps one column as pre-Zotti based on biographical information alone–the one in which “Cecil” discusses belonging to the Cub Scouts before 1955. This column is included in the first Straight Dope book but not in the archive. One assumes that it must have been written before 1978. I couldn’t find the age of Michael Lenehan or Dave Kehr online. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392/70 "2005-01-12T03:57:07Z")
I sense that our seekers may be getting a wee too nigh Gondolin, and that the pass of the Noldor may soon be closed against them by the son of Fingolfin. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392/71 "2005-01-12T04:02:54Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > I wonder what they cited as their source for this info??? I think that story was written by Jayson Blair. 😉 “Sources? We ain’t got no sources. We don’t need no sources. We don’t have to show you any stinking sources!” **New York Times** ---
**Author:** ![Tenar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@Tenar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenar)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392/72 "2005-01-12T04:34:21Z")
How unfortunate that some of our members so resolutely lack a sense of fun. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392/73 "2005-01-12T04:35:37Z")
> [@Sample\_the\_Dog](#): > > “Sources? We ain’t got no sources. We don’t need no sources. > We don’t have to show you any stinking sources!” **New York Times** Is that their equivalent of “My post is my cite!”? ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392/74 "2005-01-12T04:40:16Z")
> [@Tenar](#): > > How unfortunate that some of our members so resolutely lack a sense of fun. Some folks enjoy theater. Some folks enjoy hunting. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392/75 "2005-01-12T06:22:01Z")
> [@Freddy the Pig](#): > > On December 10, 1990, the Wall Street Journal reported, > > > [@](#): > > > > Quote:Quote: > > Cecil Adams is a nom de plume, used by a succession of authors over the years. The current Mr. Adams is a 39-year-old Chicago editor named Ed Zotti, who works out of his home. “I don’t do 'Straight Dope” for the money," he says. “But it does pay the bulk of the mortgage.” At least you quoted the date correctly, but that’s all. Read the original article, and you’ll find: > [@](#): > > Even academics take an interest. “Why does a teapot make progressively louder noises as it heats up, then suddenly goes quiet just before the water commences to boil?” asks Timothy Livengood, a doctoral candidate in > planetary astronomy at John Hopkins University in Baltimore. > Mr. Livengood is in awe of Mr. Adams’s abilities. “I asked people this > question for quite a while. All they could do is mutter something > meaningless about first order phase transition,” he says. “Cecil makes it > look easy. it was a heck of a good answer.” > > But Mr. Livengood, while grateful, isn’t credulous. “I suspect Cecil Adams > is a pseuodonym for several people,” he says. “How can one man know so > much!” > > Mr. Livengood is right about something else, too. Cecil Adams is a nom de > plume, used by a succession of authors over the years. The current Mr. > Adams is a 39-year-old Chicago editor named Ed Zotti, who works out of his > home. “I don’t do 'Straight Dope” for the money," he says. “But it does > pay the bulk of the mortgage.” So, the author of that piece, Suein L. Hwang, made the assertion. The quote is NOT attributed to Mr. Zotti. And her/his source was…ta da! Mr. Livengood. One can only hope that he didn’t get his degree, given his abilities exhibited in the above quotes. It’s taking _incredibly_ longer than one could imagine. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392/76 "2005-01-12T07:01:37Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > So, the author of that piece, Suein L. Hwang, made the assertion. The quote is NOT attributed to Mr. Zotti. And her/his source was…ta da! Mr. Livengood. One can only hope that he didn’t get his degree, given his abilities exhibited in the above quotes. > > It’s taking _incredibly_ longer than one could imagine. I don’t understand. He made up the Ed Zotti quote? ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392/77 "2005-01-12T12:20:08Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > At least you quoted the date correctly, but that’s all. Wha? 😕 Your citation and **FtP** ’s look identical to me. And the author does not appear to be quoting Livengood, but rather Ed Zotti. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392/78 "2005-01-12T13:52:08Z")
Appearances are deceiving. The article makes a statement, and then quotes Ed Zotti. There is no disputing that Ed “does” (i.e., works for) the Straight Dope. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392/79 "2005-01-12T13:52:21Z")
Sigh. The bit where **Ed** is quoted is in quotation marks. He is quoted as saying that he doesn’t do ‘Straight Dope’ for money, but it’s not unremunerative. Ed is _not_ quoted as saying he wears the **Cecil** cloak. Looking at the article, I can’t see why **samclem** says that Hwang’s source was Livengood. S/he suggests confirmation of Livengood’s suspicion, but doesn’t source it. Ed=Cecil is asserted earlier too > [@](#): > > Two books, “Straight Dope” and “More Straight Dope” are in print. The author plans a new volume for children, tentatively titled “How Do Astronauts Go to the Bathroom in Space?” But Ed is not quoted as saying he’s Cecil. Now I’m off to search to see whether there’s been progress on > [@](#): > > Cecil Adams, finally, has at least one question of his own: “How come old-fashioned water fountains have two streams that meet four inches from the spout? I’ve always been fascinated but don’t know who to ask.” ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392/80 "2005-01-12T13:56:04Z")
BTW, it’s amusing that Livengood doesn’t believe Cecil Adams is real because “How can one man know so much!” To leap from that to saying that “Cecil Adams” is really Ed Zotti doesn’t escape the incredulity of one man knowing so much, does it? Ed has learned a lot over the years, from needing to fact-check and edit what Cecil tell him. But, Ed doesn’t know as much as Cecil knows. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-fool-question-regarding-cecil/282392.md?page=5)