# Am I the only one even a little unnerved about China's plans in space? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 15, 2003, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510 "2003-10-15T04:41:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510/21 "2003-10-16T01:25:36Z")
Compare China’s current economy to that of the USA when we were starting our space program. Then consider how quickly China is modernizing, and how much economic potential they have. I could very easily see them catching up in the space race in a decade or so if we don’t start trying to compete - after all, we could have done so much more than we did if we had applied the money in more practical applications. China has hindsight, they can learn from the mistakes of the US and Soviet space programs, and some forward-thinking leaders. We may be 40 years ahead of them, but we have been spinning our wheels for the last 30 years. We could have put a man on Mars in the 70s if we had tried hard enough, or permanent bases on the moon. They don’t have THAT much catch-up to do before they can start doing more than we are currently doing. This will probably lead to a boost in the US space program. A 21st century space race could lead to some interesting things, and I would be 100% for it if I was not concerned about the possible shifts in the balance of power. The fact they can probably nuke any city in the world now with very little chance of interception makes those 400 or so nukes they have (290 of them strategic) a lot scarier. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510/22 "2003-10-16T03:02:17Z")
I find the animosity/offhand dismissal towards this accomplishment both surprising and quite amusing. “Bah, those Chinese, their spaceship sucks and they’re evil!” Awwww, are you sad that your little club has three members instead of two? Shove over, someone else is in the sandbox. It’s a great accomplishment. Congratulations to them. I hope they put men on the moon ASAP. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510/23 "2003-10-16T03:08:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ryan Mahoney \* > To me the only thing that a space launch does is prove that you now have ICBM capability, without being a signatory on any of the anti ballistic missle treatys that the rest of the world has. I just don’t get the hype. North Korea shoots off bottle rockets and the world poops it’s collective pants but China proves that they can send a nuke anywhere in the world within 30 minutes and CNN is doing backflips. I just don’t get it. Errr. China’s had the demonstrated ability to drop a nuke anywhere in the world within 30 minutes for about three decades, so it’s hardly a mystery why that particular angle isn’t being treated as news. ---
**Author:** ![Gadfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gadfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadfly)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510/24 "2003-10-16T03:40:59Z")
Ahh! Zee Chinese are taking over space! Wait. Isn’t that supposed to be Zee Germans? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510/25 "2003-10-16T04:28:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by j\_kat\_251 \* > \*\*Well we clearly can’t let those damn chinks take over space and/or the moon which both obviously belong to America. > > What exactly is there to worry about? \*\* This wouldn’t be allowed in the BBQ Pit, let alone IMHO. Knock it off or else. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510/26 "2003-10-16T04:31:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dal\_timgar \* > **The US never went into space for good reasons. It was to beat the Russians.** And it would have been better that we didn’t develop our space program and let the Russians do it by themselves? :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > **Maybe you have an excessive need to be #1?** Maybe you are having a bad case of sour grapes. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510/27 "2003-10-16T04:40:27Z")
There seems to be a misconception that this flight was a major Apollo-style project with the goal of putting a man in space. In reality it’s just an extension of China’s long space program. The [Long March 2F](http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/cz2f.htm) launcher used for the manned flight is a man-rated version of the [Long March 2E](http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/cz2e.htm) which first flew in 1990. And this isn’t even their largest rocket; the [Long March 3B](http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/cz3b.htm), used for commercial satellite launches, can put 11.2 tons into low earth orbit or 5 tons into geosynchronous transfer orbit. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510/28 "2003-10-16T05:47:04Z")
They also see the cost as an investment in advanced technology. They believe the US got a major boost from the space race in the 60s and 70s and think they’ll now get one too. We’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510/29 "2003-10-16T06:30:59Z")
You scared of the Chinese? I think they have been afraid of the US for several decades. ---
**Author:** ![mazirian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@mazirian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mazirian)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510/30 "2003-10-16T06:36:37Z")
You too may be a big hero, Once you’ve learned to count backwards to zero. “In German oder English I know how to count down, Und I’m learning Chinese!” says Wernher von Braun. ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510/31 "2003-10-16T07:52:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gorsnak \* > \*\*Errr. China’s had the demonstrated ability to drop a nuke anywhere in the world within 30 minutes for about three decades, so it’s hardly a mystery why that particular angle isn’t being treated as news. \*\* The DF-4, though technically an ICBM, does not have enough range to hit ‘anywhere in the world’ - it’s current range is app. 7000 km, but that was after a series of upgrades started in 1983, back in the 70s it had a range of only 4750 km. The DF-5, which was developed in 1980, has a range up to 12,000 km, but to get that range it needs to use liquid fuel boosters that require 2 hours of fueling time before launch, that were developed later. So China DOES have a handful of missiles that could conceivably hit anywhere in the world, but they have had that capability less than 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510/32 "2003-10-16T14:02:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Badtz Maru \* > \*\*The DF-4, though technically an ICBM, does not have enough range to hit ‘anywhere in the world’ - it’s current range is app. 7000 km, but that was after a series of upgrades started in 1983, back in the 70s it had a range of only 4750 km. The DF-5, which was developed in 1980, has a range up to 12,000 km, but to get that range it needs to use liquid fuel boosters that require 2 hours of fueling time before launch, that were developed later. > > So China DOES have a handful of missiles that could conceivably hit anywhere in the world, but they have had that capability less than 20 years. \*\* Sure. But they’ve had satellite launch capability for that long, and by extension, the technical ability to build an ICBM with worldwide range. Whether or not they’ve built ICBMs exploiting that technical ability is kind of irrelevant to the point the poster I was responding to was making. ---
**Author:** ![rngadam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/97f17d/32.png) [@rngadam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rngadam)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510/33 "2003-10-16T15:10:14Z")
Am I the only one even a little unnerved by Westerners being unnerved by China’s plans in space? It distress me very much that people from a country that has repeatedly subverted governments and invaded countries all over the world would try to start a fight every chance they get with China just so they can have a good, long cold war again… Please take your paranoid glasses off! China is slowly getting better, give them a chance. Everytime I read discussions about China on the 'Net, I get more and more scared of people like you. ---
**Author:** ![Optihut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/edb3f5/32.png) [@Optihut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Optihut)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510/34 "2003-10-16T18:55:33Z")
Positive outcome: Once China is on the moon, all those conspiracy theories about the USA faking the moonlanding will be silenced 🙂 As for this: **China’s space program has the potential to eclipse ours and I am not sure that their intentions are completely benign. That’s my fear.** We´re talking about governments here and given the stuff the Bush administration pulled, my trust in them having “benign intentions” isn´t great either. All the more reason for Europe to get their act together and launch a manned space program of their own! ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510/35 "2003-10-16T19:22:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rngadam \* > Am I the only one even a little unnerved by Westerners being unnerved by China’s plans in space? Nah, it’sto be expected; there will always be some folks with a bit of xenophobia and/or paranoia in any crowd. The best thing I hope to see from this launch is a renewed interest in space exploration. If a Chinese space shot prods the US into more orbiting space stations and a multinational lunar base, for instance, I’ll gladly put up with the loony xenos. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510/36 "2003-10-17T05:23:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Optihut \* > **Positive outcome: Once China is on the moon, all those conspiracy theories about the USA faking the moonlanding will be silenced 🙂** Yeah, they’ll be busy with conspiracy theories about China faking the moon landing. There are already people who claim China’s manned space flight was a hoax: no live broadcast from the capsule demonstrating zero-G, astronaut wasn’t smiling when he came out of the capsule, recovery team and local people got to the landing site too fast, etc. Pretty sad but that too is to be expected, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![DreadCthulhu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DreadCthulhu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DreadCthulhu)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510/37 "2003-10-17T06:46:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rngadam \* > \*\*Am I the only one even a little unnerved by Westerners being unnerved by China’s plans in space? > > \*\* Given that China has one of the more oppressive governments in the world, I think we have a right to be worried about them getting foothold on the high ground. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2003, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510/38 "2003-10-19T04:00:22Z")
> [@](#): > > They already have world domination through the crap made in their country and sent to Dollar Stores, so, all I can think of is making the Solar Systems first Lunar Chinese Restaurant. _Review of the first Chinese restaurant on the moon_ “Great food, no atmosphere.” \ ---
**Author:** ![Blackeyes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f6c823/32.png) [@Blackeyes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackeyes)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2003, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510/39 "2003-10-19T04:08:26Z")
I’m worried about China’s plans in space [Pentagon Report: China’s Space Warfare Tactics Aimed at U.S. Supremacy](http://www.space.com/news/china_dod_030801.html) [Taipei Times: China developing `paralysis warfare’](http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2003/10/08/2003070830) > [@](#): > > China’s military is changing its strategy from deterrence to pre-emption, planning to use “paralysis warfare” against Taiwan in the future, the Ministry of National Defense said in a report delivered to the legislature’s defense committee yesterday. [The Age: Space envy](http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/10/14/1065917413175.html) > [@](#): > > The Chinese military is acutely aware of American efforts, pushed even more strongly in the past two years by US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, to make space the new dimension of warfare, with satellites providing real-time intelligence and targeting for strike vehicles, both manned and remote-controlled. > > A report mid-year by the US Defence Department on China’s military power highlighted Chinese efforts to build the capability to “blind” American space-based systems by laser beams, electromagnetic jamming and “direct-ascent” missiles and killer satellites, although officially Beijing insists it will not join any space arms race. The report quotes a leading Chinese strategist, Senior Colonel Shen Zhongchang of the Chinese Navy Research Institute, as seeing such techniques as the way a weaker military could defeat a stronger one. “The mastery of outer space will be a requisite for military victory, with outer space becoming the new commanding heights for combat,” Shen says. [Spy in the sky](http://washingtontimes.com/national/20031016-104716-8424r.htm) > [@](#): > > China’s first manned spacecraft did more than simply showcase Beijing’s efforts for civilian space flight…the spacecraft also conducted intelligence-gathering work for China’s military. [U.S.-Taiwan military ties need upgrading: expert](http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/detail.asp?ID=42304&GRP=B) [China and the Battlefield in Space](http://www.heritage.org/Research/AsiaandthePacific/wm346.cfm) > [@](#): > > The newest battlefield for China will be in space. From a defensive standpoint China is seeking to block the United States from developing its own anti-satellite weapons and space-based ballistic missile defense systems. [Chinese war games to face Taiwan again](http://washingtontimes.com/national/20031013-121448-6037r.htm) > [@](#): > > China is set to hold large-scale military exercises aimed at stepping up pressure on Taiwan’s government, U.S. officials said yesterday. > About 100,000 Chinese troops are expected to take part in the war games, to be held in China’s Fujian province, facing the island of Taiwan across the Taiwan Strait. ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2003, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510/40 "2003-10-19T08:01:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by j\_kat\_251 \* > \*\*Well we clearly can’t let those damn chinks take over space and/or the moon which both obviously belong to America. > > What exactly is there to worry about? \*\* It does occur to me that your use of “damn chinks” is hyperbole in furtherance of sarcasm, but was the racial slur really necessary to make your point? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-even-a-little-unnerved-about-chinas-plans-in-space/207510.md?page=3)