This is a well known incident during the making of Pepper but it’s worth remembering here for those who think that they weren’t a band after they stopped touring.
Bumping to report on my impression of the 5.1 mix.
In a word, WOW! I just finished listening. and on my system, to my ears, it sounds absolutely fantastic. Kudos to Giles Martin! Purists may argue that the mono mix is definitive (its the one the band and George Martin worked on together) but this “new” surround version is wonderful, a really immersive experience.
The new stereo mix is a little bass-heavy to me, but it still sounds great–like it could’ve been recorded yesterday. It’s amazing what they did with those 50 year-old 4-track tapes. If you’re a fan of Sgt Pepper and have a 5.1 system I would definitely recommend getting the new deluxe box set…besides the surround and the new stereo mixes it has the mono version, 2 CDs worth of studio outtakes, promo films of Strawberry Fields, Penny Lane, A Day In The Life, and a “making of” documentary. The set also includes a 144-page book, facsimiles of the original Sgt. Peppers cut-out artwork and a Mr. Kite poster. A very high-quality package IMHO.
The New York Times just reposted their original review - it’s worth a read: From the Archives: The Original Review of ‘Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band’
Sometimes the internet is clueless, and this thread is a prime example: instead try this wonderfully insightful discussion on the art of Pepper - the original and extraordinarily advanced musicality:
Worth it just for George’s coaching of Indian singers in a hybrid of two cultures, or the 4 keys in X, or the 4 pianos in Y; it’s difficult to conceive how a group of people wit so muh talent were able to harness that in a single project - and that’s just George Martin’s studio team:
Essential knowledge: BBC Two - Sgt Pepper's Musical Revolution with Howard Goodall?
BBC Player only works in the UK.
Yes, the internet is clueless.
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The BBC Pepper documentary is being shown on PBS stations this week as a pledge drive special.
Sgt Peppers is an iPhone 4. Not too impressive now, but it was amazing in the context of its time.
Sgt Pepper is Windows. You can’t imagine your world without it.
Yep, I think most people understand that. It’s not my place to explain the game.
I really do dislike the whole idea of arguments such as this. It took me many years on this orb, to realize that declarations of artistic superiority are really ALL entirely invalid from their core, because art is ALWAYS interactive, and therefore subjective. Discussions of relative music group status are extra annoying, because in addition to the subjective nature of the art itself, the ego games of those who participate in all the calculations involved, confuses everything even as everyone talks.
That’s not in any way intended to be a personal condemnation of anyone, or of the whole idea of investigations of artistry, by the way, it’s just an expression of my frustration with the actual arguments which invariably do take place.
I grew up enjoying the Beatles more than any other single group or performer. I had friends who were absolute partisan devotees of the Rolling Stones, and some of them used every tiny chance they could manufacture, to declare that The Beatles were this or that “bad thing.” They would complain about commercialism sometimes, and about incoherence sometimes, and after the Beatles broke up, of lack of longevity.
But really, what it was always all about, was that a relatively small society of art critics, consisted of a large group of Beatles fans, and smaller groups of every other artist of the time, had managed to place more articles giving glowing support to The Beatles, than had been given to others. That meant that there APPEARED to be some sort of monolithic art authority which had to be bravely challenged by the peasants who loved other artists.
Something to consider about declarations of this or that groups' effort is "seminal" or not....
I’ve seen in many instances in life, that what causes change in the world isn’t the new idea. It’s the fact that the new idea is embraced effectively by someone with influence sufficient to make things happen. Example: there were a number of companies that started selling small computers to American individuals in the late 1970’s. But what is remembered and recognized as seminal, was the release of the IBM PC, in 1981. Several of it’s predecessors were actually superior to it in various ways. But it was transformative, because it was the first device that a world-sized corporation backed and promoted until it took hold of everyone’s imagination.
In some ways, certain record albums have been like that. The Beach Boys sound was copied almost entirely from a much earlier group that Brian Wilson intensely admired, but that group is all but forgotten now, because the Beach Boys came along and copied them, at the right time, and with the support of a larger record label. The Rolling Stones set out to be a great American Blues band, and utterly failed at that. The Beatles were in many ways, a failed attempt to be four copies of Elvis Presley.
Sergeant Pepper was in some ways, an only half realized attempt by four musicians with even then, differing artistic and spiritual goals, to record and sell their recent songs, in a format which appealed to their artistic notions of the moment. If it WAS somehow a turning point for any significant part of the music industry of the world, that was due to the way that everyone else at the time reacted to it, and not necessarily to anything about the piece itself.
I like most of it myself, but I always have seen flaws in it. Same with EVERYTHING in the world, though, so again, hence my general distaste for competitive artist-follower debates.
The simple point for me about St. Pepper is it transcends music and is an expression of highly original collaborative art.
The internet may as well discuss the merits of Hamlet or Midddlemarch or Guernica or the Sistine Chapel, it doesn’t matter. The scale of the achievement is greater than anything you could say about it.
It wasn’t a small clique of critics who lauded Pepper. It was never forced on anybody. It wasn’t popular because of corporate meddling. And I’m sure the Beatles never saw themselves as failed elvises, nor did anyone else in the world. There would not ever be a Sgt Pepper made by four people who didn’t have different artistic and spiritual goals. Maybe Sonny and Cher or the Monkees would come closest. The flaws in Pepper made it as great as it was.
But there is a grievance movement that needs to gain currency by telling you that things were forced on you that weren’t, and that they actually have the truth. It’s a universal theme these days and comes in all fields. I find this more odious than artistic competitions.
I have to say, because of the anniversary, I re-listened to Sgt. Pepper’s (and it’s been years since I listened to it all the way through), and I’m re-evaluating my position of it as being my fourth or fifth favorite Beatles record. It’s just a joy to listen to all the way through. I know before I said I wasn’t fond of “Good Morning, Good Morning” and the reprise, but as part of the whole work, I actually do like them. And I still don’t understand why “Within You Without You” gets named as one of the throwaway songs on this album. I’d put it in my top 3.
I had Pepper as a child and didn’t relish WYWY. I took it up when I was a freshman getting high a lot, ignoring the rest of it for having too many memories. It was incredible. Some of the most advanced music they ever made, fascinating rhythms, and maybe Georges best song. Not close to a throwaway.
Yes, “Within You Without You” is a masterpiece and in some weird way consolidates the disparate themes of the rest of the album. Still hate “Blue Jay Way” though.
I’ve listened to it extensively in the last weeks after all those years, It certainly was one of my most heard albums in vinyl days, but there was a long gap between my extensive childhood love of the album and my own re-evaluation. I’ve come to appreciate songs like “She’s Leaving Home” and “When I’m Sixty-Four” as the exceptional songs they are, while then I thought them to be quaint grown-up music the Beatles sometimes made, but apart from that, I’ve always thought of “Lovely Rita” and “Good Morning, Good Morning” as the weak (though that’s a very high level of “weak”) songs of the set. Nonetheless, “Good Morning” probably has my favorite Beatles guitar solo except for “Taxman” (btw, is that also Paul? Doesn’t sound like George). “Within You, Without You” I loved from the start, and I share your confusion why that often gets cited as a weak song. I think it’s fantastic.
I’m 54, so I missed the “onslaught invasion” by the Beetles. But I grew up listening to their resurgence after the break-up.
My opinion has always been that the band in general were a hyped up pop band and overrated to the hilt. The Beetles failed to inspire me on any level when I had Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin and an entire Classic Rock catalog to cement my interests and appreciation for music.
For me, The Beetles were simply a pop band with a great PR machine behind them. Catchy little tunes but no real substance. I was never impressed. But I was never impressed by a lot of bands that Rolling Stone magazine decided where the greatest. I’m not a Doors fan. I can’t stand listening to Dylan or Springsteen.
I like my music loud, not pretentious. I like my music to employ riffs and hard, pounding drums… not preachy and feelgood.
So The Beetles never did it for me. But I respect anyone who finds a connection to any musical act, song or lyric.
Music is for all of us in a very personal essence of who we are on the inside.
Just my 2-cents worth.
Come Together!!!
Yes! It is indeed Paul.
If you’re going to criticize them at least learn how to spell the band’s name.
“Loud” vs “pretentious?” I never saw that as a defining dichotomy. Or anything. Probably just the opposite actually.
I agree that this album (and the artist) is overrated. I’m 50+. I’ve listened to a lot of music. One could argue that every example used your OP is/was overrated. 