# Am I the only one who prefers BC and AD to CE and BCE? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 26, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657 "2009-05-26T07:39:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657/141 "2009-05-28T02:38:12Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > **Dio** , how am I calling Jesus “Messiah” by using a dating system that says “Before Christ”? It’s a convenient historical marker, nothing more. Even “Anno Domini” (Year of Our Lord) can still be interpreted to mean “Year Of Our (In The Sense Of The People That Devised The Dating System) Lord” and not “Year of _Your_ Lord”. “Christ” means “Messiah” in Greek. It’s the same word. There are no measurable years before or after the Christ if you think the Christ hasn’t come yet. For Jews, it’s still “BC.” Your _Anno Domini_ comment makes no sense to me. It refers to Jesus and nobody else. Some people don’t want to call Jesus “Lord.” Why should they have to? He’s not their Lord, “the” Lord or any Lord. Some people think there’s only one Lord and he ain’t it. Like I keep saying, though, they’re not trying to stop anyone else from saying it, nor are they offended if they do. They just don’t want to say it themselves. Why is that such an outrage? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657/142 "2009-05-28T02:38:33Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There is more conflict between Catholicism and Protestantism than ther is between Christianity and Buddhism.. I’d say that depends on the brand of Protestantism, wouldn’t you? Anglicans are much more similar to Roman Catholics than they are to Pentecostals. > [@](#): > > Being Christian and practicing, for instance, Zen meditation (which I practice myself as a raving atheist) is akin to being a Christian and practicing yoga. You don’t have to believe anything contradictory. My father’s pastor (a fucking moron I have had to resist the urge to punch twice this year) would say and has said that yoga is even more spiritually dangerous than atheism. It’s an invitation to allowing demons access to your mind and heart; he likens it to deliberately leaving all the doors in your house open and unlocked and posting a sign saying “Burglars welcome.” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657/143 "2009-05-28T02:42:54Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > “Christ” means “Messiah” in Greek. It’s the same word. There are no measurable years before or after the Christ if you think the Christ hasn’t come yet. For Jews, it’s still “BC.” > > Your _Anno Domini_ comment makes no sense to me. It refers to Jesus and nobody else. Some people don’t want to call Jesus “Lord.” Why should they have to? He’s not their Lord, “the” Lord or any Lord. Some people think there’s only one Lord and he ain’t it. This sort of thing is why I virtually never discuss religion with people. > [@](#): > > Like I keep saying, though, they’re not trying to stop anyone else from saying it, nor are they offended if they do. They just don’t want to say it themselves. Why is that such an outrage? Because it gives other people ideas. That’s the outrage. I don’t mind Jewish (or Muslim, or Hindu, or other Non-Western) scholars using BCE/CE. What I mind are Western Scholars trying to be politically correct and using it, muddying the waters of acceptable standardisation even further and giving traditionalists one more thing to be heckled about. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657/144 "2009-05-28T03:06:59Z")
It has nothing to do with “political correctness” (which is mostly an imaginary standard all by itself). Scholars who use it these days tend to do so in the interest of religious neutrality, but it’s still a personal choice. There is no pressure on anyone to do it. You are the one trying to tell people what it’s acceptable to say, not them. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657/145 "2009-05-28T03:26:14Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > Agreed, but it’s not just the ‘Christ’ bit that is devotional, it’s that it says ‘before Christ.’ That presumes he actually existed. A fact that’s accepted by the overwhelming majority of scholars, Christian or otherwise, theist or atheist. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657/146 "2009-05-28T03:39:59Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There is no conflict. You just don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. It’s funny that after complaining about name calling (which you initiated), you also now lower the level of civility in this discussion. Good job. > [@](#): > > ETA, it probably helps if you know that karma and reincarnation are not necessary Buddhist beliefs. Let’s see if you know what the fuck you are talking about. From [wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddha), we have: “After 49 days meditating, at the age of 35, he attained Enlightenment” Clicking on Enlightenment, we get to a page on [Bodhi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi) > [@](#): > > Bodhi (बोधि) is both the Pāli and Sanskrit word traditionally translated into English as “enlightenment.” The word “buddha” means “one who has achieved bodhi.” Bodhi is also frequently (and more accurately) translated as “awakening,” … its most common usage by far is in the context of Buddhism > > In Buddhism, bodhi means the awakening experience attained by Gautama Buddha and his accomplished disciples and refers to the unique consciousness of a fully liberated yogi. Clicking on “liberated”, we get to a page on [Moksha](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moksha) > [@](#): > > In Indian religions, Moksha (Sanskrit: मोक्ष mokṣa) or Mukti (Sanskrit: मुक्ति), literally “release” (both from a root muc “to let loose, let go”), is the liberation from samsara, the cycle of death and rebirth or reincarnation and all of the suffering and limitation of worldly existence. > … > In Buddhism the concept of liberation is Nirvana. It is referred to as “the highest happiness” and is the goal of the Buddhist path. Clicking on [Nirvana](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana), we get > [@](#): > > In sramanic thought, Nirvana (Sanskrit: निर्वाण, Nirvāṇa; Pali: निब्बान, Nibbāna; Prakrit: णिव्वाण) is the state of being free from both suffering and the cycle of rebirth. It is an important concept in Buddhism and Jainism. Even Buddha himself talks about reincarnation. From the page on [Samsara in Buddhism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsara_(Buddhism)) > [@](#): > > At Savatthi. There the buddha said: “From an inconstruable (sic) beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. What do you think, monks: Which is greater, the tears you have shed while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — or the water in the four great oceans?” > > “As we understand the Dhamma taught to us by the Blessed One, this is the greater: the tears we have shed while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — not the water in the four great oceans.” > > "Excellent, monks. Excellent. It is excellent that you thus understand the Dhamma taught by me. > > "This is the greater: the tears you have shed while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — not the water in the four great oceans. > > "Long have you (repeatedly) experienced the death of a mother. The tears you have shed over the death of a mother while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — are greater than the water in the four great oceans. > > "Long have you (repeatedly) experienced the death of a father… the death of a brother… the death of a sister… the death of a son… the death of a daughter… loss with regard to relatives… loss with regard to wealth… loss with regard to disease. The tears you have shed over loss with regard to disease while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — are greater than the water in the four great oceans. “Why is that? From an inconstruable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. Long have you thus experienced stress, experienced pain, experienced loss, swelling the cemeteries — enough to become disenchanted with all fabricated things, enough to become dispassionate, enough to be released.” So, basically, it seems that the cycle of rebirth (i.e. reincarnation) is an essential part of Buddhism, and you are full of shit. And since the cycle of rebirth goes against Christian and Jewish religious doctrines, there is a conflict in Christians and Jews labeling someone the Buddha. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657/147 "2009-05-28T03:52:13Z")
Man…let’s see. the term buddha may be religiuos-free in itself, my Pali ain’t that good to argue that. HOWEVER, what I say is that that “dictionary” meaning of the word is not importnt, but what people actually use it for, and, regardless of how correct those view may be, most people in the western world regard buddha as a religious word and S. Gautama as a religious leader. If buddha means “lefty” in Pali, still people connect it with religion (Mahayana buddhists are very close to deifying him) DtC: Is it your contention that if we, say, counted years from the birth of Buddha BB/AB we wouldn’t have to use two options? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657/148 "2009-05-28T04:02:45Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > A fact that’s accepted by the overwhelming majority of scholars, Christian or otherwise, theist or atheist. No, it’s accepted that _Jesus_ existed, not that he was “Christ” or “Lord.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657/149 "2009-05-28T04:27:53Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > It’s funny that after complaining about name calling (which you initiated), you also now lower the level of civility in this discussion. Good job. > Let’s see if you know what the fuck you are talking about. > > From [wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddha), we have: > “After 49 days meditating, at the age of 35, he attained Enlightenment” > > Clicking on Enlightenment, we get to a page on [Bodhi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi) > Clicking on “liberated”, we get to a page on [Moksha](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moksha) > > Clicking on [Nirvana](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana), we get > > Even Buddha himself talks about reincarnation. From the page on [Samsara in Buddhism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsara_(Buddhism)) > So, basically, it seems that the cycle of rebirth (i.e. reincarnation) is an essential part of Buddhism, and you are full of shit. > > And since the cycle of rebirth goes against Christian and Jewish religious doctrines, there is a conflict in Christians and Jews labeling someone the Buddha. Sorry, but youy’re still misinformed. None of what you’re citing is neccessary Buddhist belief. There IS no neccessary religious belief in Buddhism. Enlightenment is a mental state, not a supernatural phenomenon, or a religious one or a unique one to Siddhartha. Secondly, the “transmigration of souls” referred to in the Pali canon is not the same as reincarnation (it’s not really the same soul, but Siddhartha was obscure about it, saying it was neither the same sould nor a different soul, but likened it to one candle lighting another. He also said it wasn’t important to think about and compared wasting any thought on to worrying about the exact construction of an arrow that’s been shot through you instead of just pulling it out. In other words, he did NOT present it as any kind of necessary doctrine and actually discouraged discussion of. Having said that, even if you still want to insist on this exercise of extropoalting a necessary acceptance of a belief in reincarnation for anyone who uses the non-religious title of “Buddha” (which anyone can become, and without any neccesary religious doctrine), guess what? Nothing about reincarnation is contrary to Jewish belief anyway. As a matter of fact, [IS a common Jewish belief](http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_o/bl_simmons_reincarnation.htm), so suck on that. The Jewish conception of transmigration of souls, even the metaphor of one candle lighting another, is virtually identical to what Siddhartha allegedly said. It’s possible to be Jewish and to believe in reincarnation, and to believe that Siddhartha Gautma was an “awakened” individual. Now that we’ve put that nonsense to bed, it’s all irrelevant anyway, since it’s not your place to dictate what words Jews, or any other non-Christians, or any _Christians_ for that matter, need to feel comfortable using or not using. How about they say whatver the hell they want, and you say whatever the hell you want? How about that? They’re not asking anything from you, so why do you care? Who put you in charge of policing what language they need to be comfortable with? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657/150 "2009-05-28T04:33:30Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Man…let’s see. the term buddha may be religiuos-free in itself, my Pali ain’t that good to argue that. > HOWEVER, what I say is that that “dictionary” meaning of the word is not importnt, but what people actually use it for, and, regardless of how correct those view may be, most people in the western world regard buddha as a religious word and S. Gautama as a religious leader. So what if they do? Does that mean _everybody_ has to understand it that way just because some do? > [@](#): > > DtC: Is it your contention that if we, say, counted years from the birth of Buddha BB/AB we wouldn’t have to use two options? Nobody _has_ to do anything now. It’s purely a matter of personal choice. If used a dating system that counted from the birth of Buddha, it would be such a different world that I can’t speculate whether anybody would want to personally avoid the use of the title or not. I do know that the title does not have an analog in another religion similar to what “Messiah” has in Judaism. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657/151 "2009-05-28T04:42:37Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > it’s not really the same soul.. I missed the edit window. This should have said, "It’s not the same “individual”. There is no continuation of awareness or consciousness. Every iteration is a different “person,” not a continuation of the last one. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657/152 "2009-05-28T06:19:14Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > … **Bridget Burke** , I sincerely hope you’re not accusing me of being a doddering old man. I’m 27. The new nomenclature doesn’t confuse me, I just object to its use… You are well on your way to Premature Curmudgeonhood. You are also an ally of the [Southern Baptist Convention](http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/amResolution.asp?ID=298) in this matter: > [@](#): > > WHEREAS, Historically, our (Gregorian) calendar marked the centrality of the incarnation of the Lord Jesus by the designation B.C. (before Christ) and A.D. (anno Domini [in the year of the Lord]); and > > WHEREAS, Some recent publishing practices alter this designation in favor of B.C.E. (before common era) and C.E. (common era); and > > WHEREAS, This practice is the result of the secularization, anti-supernaturalism, religious pluralism, and political correctness pervasive in our society. > > WHEREAS, The traditional method of dating is a reminder of the preeminence of Christ and His gospel in world history; and > > WHEREAS, This retention is a reminder to those in this secular age of the importance of Christ’s life and mission and emphasizes to all that history is ultimately His Story. > > Therefore, be it RESOLVED, That the messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention, meeting in Orlando, Florida, June 13-14, 2000 A.D., encourage Southern Baptist individuals, churches, entities, and institutions to retain the traditional method of dating and avoid this revisionism. As a Texan, I try to oppose those racist, sexist old farts as much as possible. Generally, I’d just say use the terms you prefer; neither option offends me. However, I realize that you are upset because you may be “forced” to use the newer nomenclature in your professional writing. You’re also upset about Bombay/Mumbai & Calcutta/Kolkata, aren’t you? Things change. If you can’t handle these changes at your age, look forward to a life full of impotent anger. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657/153 "2009-05-28T12:23:00Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > A fact that’s accepted by the overwhelming majority of scholars, Christian or otherwise, theist or atheist. Not quite: > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, it’s accepted that _Jesus_ existed, not that he was “Christ” or “Lord.” Which is a bit different. I don’t see how this has anything to do with ‘PC’ or ‘offending non-Christians.’ Why assume that people are using CE and BCE for those reasons? Couldn’t it just possibly be because they personally prefer not to refer to Christ when giving a date? If I say BCE, do you automatically assume I’m doing it to be overly PC, rather than for the reasons I’ve given in this thread? Usually when people see a change they dislike and label it as ‘PC gone mad’ it’s not actually anything PC at all. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657/154 "2009-05-28T14:39:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No. “Messiah” has specific religious meanings (albeit different ones) in Christianity and Judaism. “Buddha” has no religious meaning even within Buddhism. “Messiah” is a religious title. “Buddha” is not. Can you cite an example of “Buddha” used in a non-religious context in English? Because as far as I know, it’s always used with a religious meaning. > [@](#): > > Having said that, it’s not for anyone else to decide what titles Jews or other non-Christians may or may not regard as having religious significance or what they should have to say. If they don’t want to say it, why do you care? I’m a descriptivist, not prescriptivist. My only concern is communicability; as long as there’s no confusion, I don’t care. I’ll use whatever term suits the setting. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657/155 "2009-05-28T15:11:35Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Can you cite an example of “Buddha” used in a non-religious context in English? Pretty much any use at all is non-religious. The concept of “enlightenment” in itself is non-religious. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657/156 "2009-05-28T15:39:49Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Pretty much any use at all is non-religious. The concept of “enlightenment” in itself is non-religious. That disagrees with the common usages of [“enlightenment”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment_(concept)) and [“religious”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657/157 "2009-05-28T15:57:08Z")
It’s not religious. Don’t believe everything you read on Wikipedia. Let’s put it another way. There is nothing inherent in the concept of Buddhist “enlightenment” or the title of “Buddha” which as any necessary conflict with Jewish theology, or any other theology, because it involves no theistic beliefs or necessary metaphysical doctrine. This is also kind of a pointless digression. People are allowed to decide for themselves what kind of language they feel religiously comfortable using. Just because someone doesn’t want to call Jesus “Messiah” or “Lord” doesn’t mean they have to feel equally uncomfortable saying “Buddha.” They don’t have to justify what words they want to use. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657/158 "2009-05-28T16:30:04Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s not religious. Don’t believe everything you read on Wikipedia. In this case the Wikipedia matches my understanding and the usage of those I frequently communicate with. The fact that Wikipedia agrees means these are common usages. Which means you need to support your views better if you hope to convince anyone. > [@](#): > > Let’s put it another way. There is nothing inherent in the concept of Buddhist “enlightenment” or the title of “Buddha” which as any necessary conflict with Jewish theology, or any other theology, because it involves no theistic beliefs or necessary metaphysical doctrine. What does conflicting (or not) have to do with whether or not the terms are religious? A religion does not need to be exclusive or theistic or dogmatic. From the Wikipedia, “a religion is an organized approach to human spirituality”. “Buddha” is used to refer to someone has reached spiritual enlightenment. Thus, it’s a religious term. > [@](#): > > People are allowed to decide for themselves what kind of language they feel religiously comfortable using. Just because someone doesn’t want to call Jesus “Messiah” or “Lord” doesn’t mean they have to feel equally uncomfortable saying “Buddha.” They don’t have to justify what words they want to use. I agree with you on this, but that doesn’t mean you’re not wrong elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657/159 "2009-05-28T16:38:49Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > In this case the Wikipedia matches my understanding and the usage of those I frequently communicate with. The fact that Wikipedia agrees means these are common usages. You and wikipedia are both wrong. > [@](#): > > A religion does not need to be exclusive or theistic or dogmatic. From the Wikipedia, “a religion is an organized approach to human spirituality”. “Buddha” is used to refer to someone has reached spiritual enlightenment. The word “spiritual” in these sentences has no meaning. Nor does it have any meaning in Buddhism. “Enlightenment” is not a metaphysical concept. There is nothing “religious” about it except in the most metaphorical sense. > [@](#): > > I agree with you on this, but that doesn’t mean you’re not wrong elsewhere. I’m not wrong elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657/160 "2009-05-28T16:43:24Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You and wikipedia are both wrong. > > The word “spiritual” in these sentences has no meaning. Nor does it have any meaning in Buddhism. “Enlightenment” is not a metaphysical concept. There is nothing “religious” about it except in the most metaphorical sense. 😃 You’re certainly free to use words in your own idiosyncratic way, but don’t expect other people to understand what you’re talking about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-who-prefers-bc-and-ad-to-ce-and-bce/497657.md?page=9)