# Am I the only one who's not !OUTRAGED! over the death of Cecil the lion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 29, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506 "2015-07-29T19:45:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506/201 "2015-08-04T17:09:50Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > A professional hunter took the dentist’s money, did not complete the required government forms, did not pay the applicable government fees, baited Cecil away from the game preserve, and required 40 hours to track the wounded lion. The professional hunter knew the hunt was illegal. It’s obvious that the professional hunter and the landowner knew the hunt was illegal. None of this demonstrates that Palmer didn’t also know it was illegal. As has already been said, as an experienced African hunter, _he should have been aware that the hunt might have been illegal._ At best, he failed due diligence, perhaps to be able to claim ignorance of any problems subsequently. ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506/202 "2015-08-04T17:53:49Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > It just struck me that naming anything in Zimbabwe ‘Cecil’ is some kind of signifier. > [@Sangahyando](#): > > I got the impression, from a brief holiday in Zimbabwe some 25 years ago (and I may have things wrong here), that many black Zimbabweans have, “despite everything”, quite a soft spot for Mr. Rhodes – seeing him not as an imperialist villain, but rather as a big historical figure and mover-and-shaker, commanding some respect. A bit more on the – overall rather trivial, in the general context – issue of nomenclature: an item lately found elsewhere on the Net (no cite given): “Cecil and his brother were first spotted at a watering hole [presumably in the Hwange National Park] whose name apparently translates as ‘White man’s hole’, and were thus both named after [19th century empire-building] white men, Cecil Rhodes and Leander Starr Jameson”. No light thrown therein, re Cecil’s brothers, viz. what may have become of Leander, and where Jericho fits in. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506/203 "2015-08-04T18:17:18Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It’s obvious that the professional hunter and the landowner knew the hunt was illegal. None of this demonstrates that Palmer didn’t also know it was illegal. > > As has already been said, as an experienced African hunter, _he should have been aware that the hunt might have been illegal._ At best, he failed due diligence, perhaps to be able to claim ignorance of any problems subsequently. (Underline added) Is that how they decide criminal cases in Zimbabwe, guilty until proven innocent? That seems to be how the animal-rights zealots are demanding that the U.S., Zimbabwe, the internet, and world treat the dentist. I think I could survive in this guilty-until-proven-innocent, might-makes-right, kinda justice that the animal-rights zealots are demanding. I wonder if they could? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506/204 "2015-08-04T20:47:50Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (Underline added) > > Is that how they decide criminal cases in Zimbabwe, guilty until proven innocent? No criminal case has been brought in Zimbabwe to date. No one has denied that the hunt that Palmer participated in was illegal, not even him, so there’s reason for Zimbabwe to request extradition so that the extent of his culpability can be determined. > [@](#): > > That seems to be how the animal-rights zealots are demanding that the U.S., Zimbabwe, the internet, and world treat the dentist. > > I think I could survive in this guilty-until-proven-innocent, might-makes-right, kinda justice that the animal-rights zealots are demanding. I wonder if they could? I will merely note that you have not shown similar devotion to the rules of evidence and the presumption of guilt in other cases, such as Eric Garner. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506/205 "2015-08-04T23:52:06Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > No criminal case has been brought in Zimbabwe to date. No one has denied that the hunt that Palmer participated in was illegal, not even him, so there’s reason for Zimbabwe to request extradition so that the extent of his culpability can be determined. > I will merely note that you have not shown similar devotion to the rules of evidence and the presumption of guilt in other cases, such as Eric Garner. Assuming Zimbabwe is serious about extraditing the dentist, it’s odd that the U.S. State Dept hasn’t acknowledged receiving such a request from Zimbabwe. I would like to know if Zimbabwe wants to talk to the dentist as a material witness against the professional hunter and the landowner, or as an alleged criminal. Eric Garner? Did Eric Garner like lions? Did Eric Garner like dentists? Did you know that the medical examiner did not find any damage to Garner’s windpipe or neck bones, which cast doubt on the claim that Garner was actually choked to death? It seems that Garner had suffered a heart attack and died in the ambulance transporting him to the hospital. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506/206 "2015-08-05T00:07:52Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > … It seems that Garner had suffered a heart attack and died in the ambulance transporting him to the hospital. Sure it does. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506/207 "2015-08-05T01:47:33Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Eric Garner? Did Eric Garner like lions? Did Eric Garner like dentists? Did you know that the medical examiner did not find any damage to Garner’s windpipe or neck bones, which cast doubt on the claim that Garner was actually choked to death? It seems that Garner had suffered a heart attack and died in the ambulance transporting him to the hospital. I’m not going to hijack the thread by addressing this. I made my point above, which you dodged entirely. Enough said. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506/208 "2015-08-05T03:10:45Z")
[https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/11796447\_10207418480965908\_2478460716270487397\_n.jpg?oh=f2a27c6aa6fa7278438481aa03ed33c9&oe=5647BCBB](https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/11796447_10207418480965908_2478460716270487397_n.jpg?oh=f2a27c6aa6fa7278438481aa03ed33c9&oe=5647BCBB) ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506/209 "2015-08-05T13:38:48Z")
While this is NOT Cecil, it looks like lion kills are a bigger thing than I would have imagined and being addressed by Zimbabwe. > **[Doctor is second American named in African lion-killing investigation](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3183020/Doctor-second-American-named-African-lion-killing-investigation-Pittsburgh-gynecologist-posed-dead-elephants-hippos-zebras-ostriches-water-buffalo-accused-killing-lion.html)** > > A second American, Dr. Jan Seski, has been named in a growing big game poaching investigation in Zimbabwe on Sunday and is accused of participating in an illegal lion hunt in April > **[Pa. doctor accused of killing lion illegally in Zimbabwe defended by safari...](https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/pa-doctor-accused-illegal-lion-hunt-defended-operator-article-1.2313297)** > > “He conducted his hunt in good faith and now he is being treated as if he is some criminal,” Headman Sibanda said of 68-year-old Jan Seski. > **[Pittsburgh doctor, trophy hunter defends lion hunt as legal](https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/pittsburgh-doctor-trophy-hunter-defends-lion-hunt-legal-article-1.2314607)** > > Dr. Jan Seski's attorney has argued that claims by Zimbabwe's government that his recent trophy hunt was illegal are simply 'not accurate.' This has been really followed at least by the Pittsburgh media. Don’t know if this case has gone as international or not. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506/210 "2015-08-06T01:57:39Z")
Now we have a [lady Idaho hunter making the world safe from giraffes](http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/04/us/idaho-huntress-sabrina-corgatelli/index.html). Quote: **“But giraffes are very dangerous animals. They could hurt you seriously, very quickly.”** ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506/211 "2015-08-06T02:53:53Z")
I want to see her mount it on her wall. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506/212 "2015-08-06T03:56:51Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Now we have a [lady Idaho hunter making the world safe from giraffes](http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/04/us/idaho-huntress-sabrina-corgatelli/index.html). > > Quote: **“But giraffes are very dangerous animals. They could hurt you seriously, very quickly.”** Particularly if you don’t have a bevy of professional hunters with rifles at your back to blow the giraffe away if it shows any signs of becoming uncooperative. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506/213 "2015-08-06T04:05:46Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Now we have a [lady Idaho hunter making the world safe from giraffes](http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/04/us/idaho-huntress-sabrina-corgatelli/index.html). > > Quote: **“But giraffes are very dangerous animals. They could hurt you seriously, very quickly.”** Main differences: 1. She did everything legally, as far as we know. 2. Giraffes aren’t endangered. Neither are lions, but giraffes are firmly in the “healthy population” category while lions are vulnerable. Only the West African and Rothschild subspecies are endangered. These don’t live anywhere near South Africa. 3. She apparently donated the meat to a local village. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506/214 "2015-08-06T05:40:19Z")
She’s still an asshat. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506/215 "2015-08-06T05:43:07Z")
Well at least she’s sexier than the dentist. ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506/216 "2015-08-06T10:09:32Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Quote: **“But giraffes are very dangerous animals. They could hurt you seriously, very quickly.”** > [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Main differences: > > 1. She did everything legally, as far as we know. > > 2. Giraffes aren’t endangered. Neither are lions, but giraffes are firmly in the “healthy population” category while lions are vulnerable. Only the West African and Rothschild subspecies are endangered. These don’t live anywhere near South Africa. > > 3. She apparently donated the meat to a local village. Though this whole trophy-hunting thing strikes me as somewhat ugly, and would not be my personal idea of fun: kudos to the lady for following rightful procedures. For some reason, though, “giraffes are very dangerous” cracked me up – even though it could be true, going against my ignorant preconceptions about the species. It just seems to suggest a “looking-glass” version of General Woundwort… ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506/217 "2015-08-06T19:17:34Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Now we have a [lady Idaho hunter making the world safe from giraffes](http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/04/us/idaho-huntress-sabrina-corgatelli/index.html). > > Quote: **“But giraffes are very dangerous animals. They could hurt you seriously, very quickly.”** From your linked article - \*Despite a firestorm of comments on her Facebook and Instagram pages, Corgatelli has continued to post images from her legal hunting trip to South Africa online. …Her defiance flies in the face of the tide of Internet-fueled outrage sparked by the killing last month of Cecil the lion… …The posts have prompted thousands of critical and abusive comments, including rape and death threats, and heated exchanges with Corgatelli’s defenders. …Asked about a potential backlash when she returns to the United States from vacation – one angry commentator reportedly posted details of her workplace on her Facebook page – Corgatelli told NBC she was a little concerned. But, she said, “Everything I’ve done here is legally. So how can you fault somebody because of their hobbies? You’re always going to have employees that you don’t agree with what they do on their spare time. But how can an employer chastise you for something you do on your personal time that’s legally done?”\* Oh No! There are people in the real world who don’t give a hoot what the impotent, angry, bullies and assholes on Facebook and Istagram have to say. I’m shocked that the world hasn’t come to an end. The abusive comments, including threats of rape and death, being issued by internet assholes and animal-rights activists are no different than those issued by other terrorists. They are the acts of cowards. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506/218 "2015-08-06T23:36:26Z")
[Cecil the lion bronze statue planned](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-33808810) ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506/219 "2015-08-07T00:47:04Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I want to see her mount it on her wall. OK – I am torn between two replies: a) If she has a house big enough to handle it, I want to marry her. and b) It would be more interesting to see her mount it in her bedroom. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506/220 "2015-08-07T10:58:45Z")
Recent comment, by a Zimbabwean in the US: [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/05/op...for-lions.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/05/op...for-lions.html) “In Zimbabwe, We Don’t Cry for Lions” The guy muses on how utterly poles-apart the views on this business of his compatriots, and of Westerners, appear to be. It is at any rate, a different angle on the issue – even if one with which probably few Dopers would agree. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-one-whos-not-outraged-over-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion/726506.md?page=12)