# Am I the only person in the world who has no idea who Josh Whedon is? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 5, 2005, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912 "2005-10-05T16:54:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912/41 "2005-10-05T19:26:36Z")
> [@soulmurk](#): > > Fine, I retract the use of the words “deal with”. Please replace them with “tolerate” or “traverse”, or if you’re obliged, “eat me”. Dude, you’re the one who said it originally, and then made a huge deal out of how I was misquoting you by quoting you and not using some synonym like “traverse” instead of “deal with.” You’re the one who’s still acting like it’s any sort of bother at all having, if I may quote you, “to eat me with three or four threads at a time covering much the same ground.” Don’t you be throwing that hissy fit at me, brother. I’m saying you can keep on keepin’ on being annoying by eating simulthreads you don’t care about. You’re the one making up new charges in each post. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912/42 "2005-10-05T19:27:28Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > There’s a nearly infinite _Nearly infinite_? Anyway, having been without TV for the last 5 years or so, i have only recently found out who this Joss dude is. I added _Serenity_ to the saved section of my netflix queue. Any idea on the release date? Mark (who is dissappointed in Daniel) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912/43 "2005-10-05T19:31:57Z")
> [@vetbridge](#): > > _Nearly infinite_? > > Mark (who is dissappointed in Daniel) 😉 Hmm, it looks to me as if I’m writing in conversational English, not mathematical terms. My apologies–doubleplus sloppy of me! Daniel 😉 [sub]for whom multiplying his errors exponentially is an integral part of his schtick[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912/44 "2005-10-05T19:42:00Z")
> [@vetbridge](#): > > Anyway, having been without TV for the last 5 years or so, i have only recently found out who this Joss dude is. I added _Serenity_ to the saved section of my netflix queue. Any idea on the release date? > > Mark (who is dissappointed in Daniel) 😉 Serenity won’t be available on DVD for many months, considering it just opened in theaters on Friday. But if you’re on Netflix, why not try the first discs of Firefly and Buffy the Vampire Slayer, just to see if you like them? Take it from me, the guy who recommended you watch Secretary! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912/45 "2005-10-05T19:51:48Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > But if you’re on Netflix, why not try the first discs of Firefly and Buffy the Vampire Slayer, just to see if you like them? Take it from me, the guy who recommended you watch Secretary! 😉 😃 OK, your recommendation worked before. Added Firefly. Thanks! BTW, it must be popular: > [@netflix](#): > > The first disc in this series has a long wait. ---
**Author:** ![Amok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f17d59/32.png) [@Amok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amok)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912/46 "2005-10-05T20:43:21Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Also, by the end of _Buffy_, Joss had ceded most writing duties to Marti Noxon so he could focus on _Firefly_. The last two seasons were almost entirely her doing. I’ve seen this assertion or ones like it online a lot, but interviews and DVD commentaries and such don’t seem to back it up. While there’s no doubt that his level of participation changed from the early seasons to the latter (specifically during the early seasons he was on set a lot more, and rewrote a lot more of the scripts) I think you’re overstating the matter. Everything I’ve read says he was involved in breaking each and every story during the show’s run (at least in terms of approving it and requiring changes if he wasn’t satisfied, even if he wasn’t always in the room when it happened) and always read and had final say on the script drafts, as well as being involved in the big creative decisions of the seasons. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912/47 "2005-10-05T21:47:08Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Also, by the end of _Buffy_, Joss had ceded most writing duties to Marti Noxon so he could focus on _Firefly_. The last two seasons were almost entirely her doing. You know, (to echo the post above), I’ve heard this so many times and it kinda grates me. “Everything bad that happened in the Buffyverse was Noxon’s fault!” Bzzt. Wrong answer. It’s his production company, and if he can’t control the output of he’s empolyees, then he’s still to blame. As a BtVS and Ats fan, I clearly see the flaws of the later seasons. The WB pulled the plug and UPN picked up Buffy. Everyone was happy, because it meant yet another year, helping with the car payments and the mortgages. UPN wanted a 2nd season - hooray, we still have jobs. If we look at the IMDb entries of the actors of BtVS, we see that most of them aren’t all that hot on the job market. Even the star of the show, SMG, is working kinda crappy projects (Scooby- Doo Two?). The show kept going after the story was told. The end of S.5 was perfect for the franchise. As for Ats, I really, really liked S.4, so maybe I’m biased, but I thought the final shot of 4.22 was a perfect ending for _that_ franchise. The fifth season, were the WB wanted more stand alones episodes, “because the audience won’t stand for long story arcs”, have been disproved by Desperate Housewives and Lost. To paraphrase Field of Dreams: “If you tell the story - they will follow.” Let’s face it - cheerleaders who hunt vampires and green-skinned, red-horned karaoke demons will never have a mass appeal to bring in the 20M+ sized ratings. So no matter if you do tell a compelling story, there’s a limited amount of people who will suspend their disbeliefs to follow that story to places like Pylea. There were good episodes in Angel and Buffy at the end, but the story wasn’t there anymore, and story is what counts. To keep going when there’s nothing more to say, is just gonna wear down the interest. But Wheadon kept going, because it paid the bills when he was working on his new pet project, Firefly. I can’t blame him. I’d’ve done the same. And had Firefly been a success, he’d be forgiven. But it wasn’t. So Fox is to blame? Remember, Fox was co-producing both BtVS and Ats and making money from them. Why would they sabotage Firefly? They had poured a couple of million into the production, and even if they never expected a #1 show, they must have expected to show a return from the investment. Some un-named suit get’s the blame from the fan-boys. The suit didn’t understand Firefly and decided to show the eps out of order. “Woe us. If only they had been given the chance, we’d have maybe four or five years of Firefly goodness to splurge on. Shame on you Fox. Shame.” Is JW really guiltless here? Why couldn’t he get the top brass to show the episodes in order?. I dunno. I just don’t think it’s as clear cut as the fan boys would like you to think. JW is a gifted storyteller and a master of making interesting charaters, with just a few sketches. He likes taking cliches of tv and movies and turning them upside down, just for the hell of it. Had he been a poster on this board, many would have labeled him “troll”, because he likes to do things just to provoke and push the envelope (WRT storytelling and what he can get away with). He wasn’t pushing a GBLT eagenda when he decided to film the first lesbian kiss of broadcast tv, he was just rattling the cage. The fan reaction when he killed of Tara and his response shows that he really didn’t know that he was riding on the tigers back. For the uninitiated: Joss Wheadon is one of few _auteurs_ in American television. Chris Carter, J. Michael Straczynski, Gene Roddenberry, Glen A. Larson, Aaron Spelling, Rod Serling and David E. Kelley are others. You might want to note that the majority of these names worked with Sci-fi. ---
**Author:** ![Gozu\_Tashoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@Gozu\_Tashoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu_Tashoya)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912/48 "2005-10-05T23:20:10Z")
> [@The Gaspode](#): > > For the uninitiated: > Joss Wheadon is one of few _auteurs_ in American television. Chris Carter, J. Michael Straczynski, Gene Roddenberry, Glen A. Larson, Aaron Spelling, Rod Serling and David E. Kelley are others. You might want to note that the majority of these names worked with Sci-fi. Also, Aaron Sorkin, and Neil Gaiman. (Yeah, it’s cheating, but he wrote the _Day of the Dead_ episode of Babylon 5, so I’m including him as well. 😛 ) ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912/49 "2005-10-05T23:27:37Z")
> [@KKBattousai](#): > > Also, Aaron Sorkin, and Neil Gaiman. (Yeah, it’s cheating, but he wrote the _Day of the Dead_ episode of Babylon 5, so I’m including him as well. 😛 ) You might want to add Quinn Martin, Steven Bochco, Norman Lear, and David E. Kelley to that list. ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912/50 "2005-10-05T23:28:10Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > He is the creator/writer/producer and director of several episodes of three much-loved TV shows: Buffy the Vampire Slayer, its spinoff Angel, and the sci-fi series Firefly. He most recently wrote, produced, and directed the movie Serenity, which is a continuation of Firefly. > > Before that, he was a successful writer for the sitcom Roseanne, and wrote several screenplays (occasionally getting credit, and occasionally being one of many anonymous “chefs”): his own Buffy the Vampire Slayer movie (which pales in comparison to the series), Toy Story, Speed, Twister, and Alien: Resurrection. > > He also writes the Astonishing X-Men comic book for Marvel Comics. Until seeing his name in a couple of thread titles, I, too, had never heard of Mr. Whedon. Upon reading this list, I guess I can see why. The only things listed here I’ve seen are the films **Toy Story** , **Speed** , and **Twister**. I’m not into TV shows, so all those have passed me by. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912/51 "2005-10-06T00:00:46Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > If you include _Alien_, you also have to include _Toy Story_. > > Daniel Well, now, why didn’t anybody say so! Between my 10 year old and my 4 year old, I am sure I have seen Toy Story in the neighborhood of 100 times. Good movie. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912/52 "2005-10-06T00:15:09Z")
Yep, add me to the list of folks who kept hearing the name and drawing a blank (and indeed also the list of people who, when they found out who he was, said “oh, right”) ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912/53 "2005-10-06T00:23:03Z")
> [@vetbridge](#): > > 😃 OK, your recommendation worked before. Added Firefly. Thanks! BTW, it must be popular: Note: Do NOT rent the first disc of Buffy and base your judgment of the show (or Whedon in general)'s quality on it. The whole first season of Buffy is far below average in quality. The first disc of Firefly is your best bet. Getting into Buffy is definitely worth doing, but takes a bit more patience and trust. (Does this post make me a nutty Whedonite who’s always saying “no, no, the only reason you didn’t like it is because you saw the wrong episode… you MUST like it”?) ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912/54 "2005-10-06T00:31:42Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Note: Do NOT rent the first disc of Buffy and base your judgment of the show (or Whedon in general)'s quality on it. The whole first season of Buffy is far below average in quality. The first disc of Firefly is your best bet. Getting into Buffy is definitely worth doing, but takes a bit more patience and trust. > > (Does this post make me a nutty Whedonite who’s always saying “no, no, the only reason you didn’t like it is because you saw the wrong episode… you MUST like it”?) No, you’re right. I was very skeptical at first, and only watched the first season of Buffy because a friend thrust it into my hands and told me to be patient and trust her. I was indifferent to most of it – it showed potential, but didn’t really grab me. Until the season 1 finale, “Prophecy Girl,” that is. That was a pretty awesome episode, and enough to convince me to stick around a bit longer. By the third episode of season 2, “School Hard,” Joss Whedon and my friend had converted me too. I’m a low-key Whedonite now myself, and I’ve been tearing through Buffy and Angel on DVD over the last several months, after completely ignoring them throughout their entire runs on TV. I thought “This is a stupid title for a show,” I thought “It’s on the WB, a network NOT known for its quality programming,” and I thought “There are way too many obnoxiously good-looking people on this show. What can it possibly be, some angsty teeny-bopper horror melodrama?” I was so wrong, but I didn’t realize that until I gave it a chance. I’m glad that friend pretty much forced Buffy on me, or I might never have discovered it for myself. ---
**Author:** ![GriffinMaxwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/65b543/32.png) [@GriffinMaxwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GriffinMaxwell)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912/55 "2005-10-06T00:41:02Z")
Adding “Alien Resurrection” to your resume isn’t exactly encouraged in my mind. In fact, if you taped it to someone’s back, I’d go so far as to say that it would act as an impromptu firing range target. But I digress! This has to be perhaps one of the quickest times I’ve gone from, “Who the hell is that?” to, “I can’t stand this man.” Not for Alien Resurrection, necessarily, I suppose Uwe Boll could’ve been involved, and then the proverbial shit would’ve really hit the fan. But simply because everytime his name is mentioned, a jihad is begun in his name. If you like the guy, fine. I saw an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. It was so-so, even for a vampire movie/show. Firefly doesn’t even ring a bell past a vague recollection of a short lived Fox commercial. But, again, if you liked those shows, by all means continue watching them. If you think he’s the latest reincarnation of…well, whoever is a great of Television writing, good for you. Likewise, if you think that he’s the latest reincarnation of Ed Wood, to you goes the same. But getting into an aggressive flame war, is really, pardon me, childish. Even if he is a brilliant writer, actions and words by ‘fans’ that I’ve seen so far on multiple threads have completely turned me off to him. While I will concede that by far all fans of him are most likely not the same way, sometimes it’s the minority that does the most damage. That minority have appeared to me as elitist, fanatical and utterly defensive for no reason at all other than a hint of a challenge to “Joss.” In summary: I don’t care if you like Joss. And I don’t mean that in an elitest, I’m better than you way. I mean that it’s none of my business. If you like him - fine. Enjoy him, everyone deserves their own preferences and their own favorites, and sometimes the cult favorites can be just as fun as the over-hyped blockbuster favorites. The problem I have are the people who are taking the “offense is the best defense” road and declaring holy war. And in closing, I have to say, in quoting the ever so eloquent line of a fellow poster, Loopydude. > [@](#): > > Before this “Firefly” thing ignited, I didn’t know who the fuck he was, either. … my knowledge about him now exceeds my interest in learning more. P.S. - And something tells me that if I were to ask around, 9 out of 10 people wouldn’t know who he was either. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912/56 "2005-10-06T00:43:42Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Also, by the end of _Buffy_, Joss had ceded most writing duties to Marti Noxon so he could focus on _Firefly_. The last two seasons were almost entirely her doing. And that is precisely why my Buffy collection ends at Season 5. The series should have ended when the Buffster took the big plunge. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912/57 "2005-10-06T01:04:59Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > And that is precisely why my Buffy collection ends at Season 5. The series should have ended when the Buffster took the big plunge. I would agree totally were it not for _Once More, With Feeling_. For that alone I would not condemn Season 6. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912/58 "2005-10-06T01:17:05Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I would agree totally were it not for _Once More, With Feeling_. For that alone I would not condemn Season 6. 😃 Best. Hour of television. Ever. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912/59 "2005-10-06T01:23:42Z")
If it weren’t for the internet, I wouldn’t know who Joss Whedon is either. I also wouldn’t recognize the names J. Michael Straczynski or Ron Moore. But since I participate on message boards about their shows, you kinda have to remember their names after awhile. I’m one of those uncultured types who really doesn’t care who the writer is, unless it’s the author of a series of _real_ books I like enough to go to a book store or library and look up. or I was required to learn about them in school. I was an avid comic book reader when I was younger, and I could rattle off the names of a dozen or so artists I used to like, but I’d be lucky if I could remember two writers. Stan Lee doesn’t count, his name was on every thing I read. Movies & TV shows, other than Gene Roddenberry, I really don’t care. Sure, I’d recognize Lucas, Spielberg, Ridley Scott & Kubrik, but it’s kinda hard not to, really. Their names get plastered all over the place. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912/60 "2005-10-06T02:23:22Z")
> [@GriffinMaxwell](#): > > Adding “Alien Resurrection” to your resume isn’t exactly encouraged in my mind. In fact, if you taped it to someone’s back, I’d go so far as to say that it would act as an impromptu firing range target. Near as I can tell, he doesn’t add it to his resume so much as he runs from it, hands covering his head protectively. > [@](#): > > This has to be perhaps one of the quickest times I’ve gone from, “Who the hell is that?” to, “I can’t stand this man.” Don’tyou think you’re letting yourself be influenced rather easily here? This sort of “Lookit me, cultural maverick extraordinaire!” stance is nearly as free of reflection as “Lookit me, cultural trendrider ordinaire!” stance that it supposes to stand against. I don’t much care whether you like Whedon’s works or not. I think they’re fantastic, but if you don’t, hey, more episodes for me. But disliking him because people talk about him too much? That’s silly. Daniel [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-in-the-world-who-has-no-idea-who-josh-whedon-is/324912.md?page=4)