# Am I the only person on the Internet who believes in God? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 24, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944 "2010-09-24T23:41:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944/141 "2010-09-27T14:42:10Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > My bigger problem is that I’m an asshole sometimes, which is a great testament for a belief system that is supposed to make you a better person. My experience with believers on the internet is that religion is given credit for the good things people do. Some other issue, society at large, things that happened to ancestors 100’s of years ago, solar flares, etc are responsible for the bad things they do. So, look at it this way. It must be something else that makes you an asshole and think how bad you’d really be without religion. Why you might be as evil as the rest of us heathens. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944/142 "2010-09-27T14:59:38Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Promoting Christian prayer in school is unconstitutional. The school got in trouble for it once, agreed in court not to do it again, then turned right around and did it again. That kind of behavior typically lands people in jail. Not just Christian prayer, any state sponsored endorsement of one religion over another. The key being state sponsored. It would be just as wrong for a school in NYC to hire a Rabbi to give a blessing at a school sponsored event, or a city council in Dearborn, MI to start each public meeting with “Allah akbar”. As a devout Protestant I was horrified to have to start each morning in my public school in Boston with a Catholic prayer. I was relieved when the SC ruled that unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944/143 "2010-09-27T19:30:53Z")
Aren’t those the same two examples that ITR Champion ALWAYS trots out. The same two examples that ALWAYS get torn to shreds by poster with a total of 2+ braincells? And he is STILL trotting the same old tired, flawed, examples. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944/144 "2010-09-27T19:52:49Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > Or have their car trashed or lose their job or be disowned by their family or any number of other unpleasant consequences. Atheists are one of the most hated and distrusted groups in America. > > We have to admire his courage, putting his life in mortal risk every day. It is just that on the SDMB, some of the atheists say out loud what they are thinking, and we find out why they are hated and distrusted. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944/145 "2010-09-27T19:55:34Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > So, ask for a blessing for a meal and they try to send you to jail. No, you get sent to jail for trying to use your position in the government to cram your religion down other people’s throats. Imagine the outcry if an atheist principal at a public school got up and led all the students in a shared rejection of God. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944/146 "2010-09-27T19:56:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It is just that on the SDMB, some of the atheists say out loud what they are thinking, and we find out why they are hated and distrusted. Because we remind you that you’re living a lie? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944/147 "2010-09-27T19:57:08Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > > [@jsgoddess](#): > > > > There are more atheists online than in face-to-face interactions, that’s for sure. But atheists still aren’t the majority online. > > Cite, I call this out as bull. > > Also depends what people mean by believing in god. I am not a believer in the born again type god I see in the USA but that does not stop me from believing in a higher power. So athiesm is easily explained as “there is no god” but ask anyone who believes in a god it gets hard. God does not lend him/her/its/then selves to rational explanation so therefore does not fit the net. I don’t understand your post. What part of what I said are asking for a cite for? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944/148 "2010-09-27T20:20:59Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It is just that on the SDMB, some of the atheists say out loud what they are thinking, and we find out why they are hated and distrusted. > > Regards, > Shodan Right, because **Der Trihs** is totally representative of lots of groups of people and they should all be judged by what he posts. Although - even granted that the generalization is faulty - why would you say distrust? What has he said that indicates that he’s untrustworthy? He seems honest and upfront and consistent to me. The idea that anything said in this thread would confirm to you that atheists should be “distrusted” shows you to be a bad judge of character. You actually demonstrate the point he was trying to make - he’s willing to honestly and fairly declare that there is no Santa Claus and says that people react very strongly in a negative way towards that, and you assert that this is proof that atheists should be reviled and distrusted. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944/149 "2010-09-27T20:23:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Are you kidding me? Do you somehow interpret that as simply “letting it out that they were Christians”?!? > > Here’s the key point from your cite: “Earlier this year, Florida’s Santa Rosa County School District consented to an order that prohibits all district school officials from promoting, endorsing, or causing religious prayers during school-sponsored events.” > > Promoting Christian prayer in school is unconstitutional. The school got in trouble for it once, agreed in court not to do it again, then turned right around and did it again. That kind of behavior typically lands people in jail. Yes, I do interpret making a prayer as being the same as publically identifying as Christians. Prayer is part of the daily duty of Christians. To say that the school “consented” to the order is absurd when the courts did not give them any alternative. And the [Constitution](http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html) does not say anything about prayer in school of any type, for or against. I note in passing, with distinct lack of surprise, that you clipped the link about Mary Allen, the Student Body President who was not allowed to speak at graduation because she was a Christian. How many atheist students holding a similar position have ever been banned from speaking merely because they were atheists? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944/150 "2010-09-27T20:27:39Z")
[quote=“ITR\_champion, post:149, topic:554944”] > [@](#): > > I note in passing, with distinct lack of surprise, that you clipped the link about Mary Allen, the Student Body President who was not allowed to speak at graduation because she was a Christian. How many atheist students holding a similar position have ever been banned from speaking merely because they were atheists? So are all the other people who spoke Jewish or athiest? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944/151 "2010-09-27T20:30:27Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Yes, I do interpret making a prayer as being the same as publically identifying as Christians. So everyone who publicly identifies as Christian is praying? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944/152 "2010-09-27T20:31:06Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > As for cites, is San Diego close enough? The article you linked to is about a man who goes out of his way to insult, antagonize, and censor religious believers. In response he gets a few believers who say rude things to him. Cry me a river. The tone that both you and the article’s author evince is a perfect example of the common hypocricy on this issue, stating that any nasty thing that atheists say or do should be fine. If the guy drove around with a bumper sticker declaring that Jews or blacks were stupid, would atheist lefties still throw him these sorts of pity parties? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944/153 "2010-09-27T20:33:15Z")
Nice try, **contrapuntal**. Everyone who’s following the thread knows that I was referring to the particular instance involving Lay and Freeman at the luncheon. But if the best you can do is try to take my words out of context like that, then go right ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944/154 "2010-09-27T20:43:39Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Nice try, **contrapuntal**. Everyone who’s following the thread knows that I was referring to the particular instance involving Lay and Freeman at the luncheon. But if the best you can do is try to take my words out of context like that, then go right ahead. They were exactly in context. If two things are the same thing they are the same thing. You are the one trying to weasel out with your ridiculous cite when asked for evidence that folks were fired for identifying as Christian, when that is clearly not the case. They were not fired for that. They were fired for disobeying a court order. In fact, I’ll go out on a limb and suggest that the fact that they were Christian was well known long before this incident. It makes about as much sense as claiming that a person was jailed for driving his car, when in fact he was jailed for vehicular homicide. Now, how about providing a cite for someone being fired for \*simply \*identifying as Christian, not for some proscribed religious act that has such identification as a natural consequence? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944/155 "2010-09-27T20:48:36Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > > > Yes, I do interpret making a prayer as being the same as publically identifying as Christians. > > So everyone who publicly identifies as Christian is praying? Not just praying, but doing it at public meetings. Jesus said somewhere, I think it was the _Sermon at the PTA_, that praying with your family or by yourself doesn’t count. You need to do it when there is a captive audience and if possible where there are people with other faiths. And not just a short bless this casserole kind of thing, it needs to be about your personal relationship with Jesus and how there is no salvation without him, and everyone who doesn’t think so will burn in hell. In fact, I’m not sure if any vote done in a meeting is binding unless someone has given a convocation. Certainly colleges will not accept transcripts from schools that don’t have Christian prayers at graduation. And you know what I mean by “Christian”, right? Not that kumbaya Methodist, Lutheran, or Episcopalian crab. The real Christian stuff with people being born again and speaking in tongues and rolling an the ground honest to God type Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944/156 "2010-09-27T20:53:46Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Yes, I do interpret making a prayer as being the same as publically identifying as Christians. Prayer is part of the daily duty of Christians. Didn’t you get the message about praying in the closet? No one is forcing these clowns to keep their jobs in the public schools. If leading prayers before every meal is so important to them, they can get jobs in private religious schools where it is fine. Plus, since most teachers and principals are Christian, and almost none of them pull this crap, there must be a lot of bad Christians out there. > [@](#): > > To say that the school “consented” to the order is absurd when the courts did not give them any alternative. I was unaware you got to choose to consent to court orders. Do stalkers get to choose if they are going to obey anti-harassment orders now? > [@](#): > > And the [Constitution](http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html) does not say anything about prayer in school of any type, for or against. But the Supreme Court did, and there are few better examples of establishment than giving one religion precedence in public schools. > [@](#): > > I note in passing, with distinct lack of surprise, that you clipped the link about Mary Allen, the Student Body President who was not allowed to speak at graduation because she was a Christian. How many atheist students holding a similar position have ever been banned from speaking merely because they were atheists? She wasn’t banned merely because she was a Christian - only because she was a loudmouth one. If an atheist planned on making a speech about how religion is stupid, he’d be banned also, and quite rightly. You poor oppressed majority, you. My heart bleeds. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944/157 "2010-09-27T20:57:30Z")
Hey, I saw the other day where this guy got arrested _just for running_. Of course, he was running from the cops. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944/158 "2010-09-27T21:05:58Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > > > So, ask for a blessing for a meal and they try to send you to jail. > > No, you get sent to jail for trying to use your position in the government to cram your religion down other people’s throats. You don’t even get arrested for that. First the courts will tell you to stop. Then if you do it again, that’s contempt of court, which can land you in jail. > [@Voyager](#): > > I was unaware you got to choose to consent to court orders. Do stalkers get to choose if they are going to obey anti-harassment orders now? In this case, according to ITR’s cited article, it was a consent decree, where the school officials consented to not doing it anymore. When they violated that, it’s contempt of court. It’s hard to imagine anyone being sympathetic to the school officials in this case - they consented to it, to a judge, then broke their agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Mozart1220](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Mozart1220](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mozart1220)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944/159 "2010-09-27T21:49:32Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > > [@Lobohan](#): > > > > As for cites, is San Diego close enough? > > The article you linked to is about a man who goes out of his way to insult, antagonize, and censor religious believers. In response he gets a few believers who say rude things to him. Cry me a river. The tone that both you and the article’s author evince is a perfect example of the common hypocricy on this issue, stating that any nasty thing that atheists say or do should be fine. If the guy drove around with a bumper sticker declaring that Jews or blacks were stupid, would atheist lefties still throw him these sorts of pity parties? NO, we are against the KKK as well. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944/160 "2010-09-27T22:59:08Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > > Oh, I’ve got to have a cite for this! It must be shown that all the victims did was let it out that they were Christians-it can’t just be a part of a larger effort to break the rules to push an agenda of some sort. > > [Okay.](http://blackchristiannews.com/news/2009/08/christian-law-firm-stands-with-school-officials-who-are-facing-criminal-charges-for-praying-at-a-lun-1.html) > > So, ask for a blessing for a meal and they try to send you to jail. (Though the two men were, after lengthy proceedings, found innocent.) In the same district there’s the case of student [Mary Allen](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/14/criminal-prayer-case-stirs-protests/?feat=home_headlines): > > > [@](#): > > > > Mr. Staver said the district also agreed to forbid senior class President Mary Allen from speaking at the school’s May 30 graduation ceremony on the chance that the young woman, a known Christian, might say something religious. “She was the first student body president in 33 years not allowed to speak,” he said. Not what you claimed and not what I requested-Rejected. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-the-only-person-on-the-internet-who-believes-in-god/554944.md?page=9)