# Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are innocent victims of a rush to judgment **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474 "2009-10-12T01:39:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/221 "2012-02-14T16:56:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Sometimes it produces results that, to many of us, are simply preposterous. This is different than American justice how? Or Canadian? Or British? ---
**Author:** ![gunnergoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e95f7d/32.png) [@gunnergoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunnergoz)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/222 "2012-02-14T19:35:09Z")
I’m originally from Italy and Italians know better than anyone of the corruption, vanity and incompetence that is rampant in their bureaucrats, politicians, prosecutors, courts and police agencies. There are good people, crusaders, if you will, but also many flakes, fools and nefarious sorts to be found in their legal and justice system. As soon as I saw the comments about “satanic sex orgies” and such, I smelled a colossal rat behind this particular prosecution. I love Italy, but this is one part of it that I totally repudiate. Just my two bits, your mileage may vary… ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/223 "2012-09-12T08:59:23Z")
Rafael Sollecito has a book coming out, and I thought this would be the place to mention it. [AP story here](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_BOOKS_KNOX_BOYFRIEND?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-09-12-03-05-21). I thought the most telling part of the article was this sentence: > [@](#): > > It’s not clear where Sollecito is living. For his sake, I hope he’s not in Italy; apparently parts of the book are critical of the police and their handling of the case, and I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the police try and arrest him for slander, the same way they charged Amanda Knox (and won a conviction on the charge, ffs). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/224 "2013-03-25T16:42:05Z")
2nd and final appeal is expected to be decided today. I really can’t see this going any other way than the court telling the prosecution to get stuffed. [Cite](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_ITALY_KNOX?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-03-25-10-30-14). I hope they throw out Knox’s slander conviction as well. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Morgan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bc8723/32.png) [@Captain\_Morgan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/225 "2013-03-26T09:41:43Z")
Looks like there’s going to be a retrial… > **[Amanda Knox 'Shocked' By Court Ruling That She Will Be Tried Again for Murder](https://abcnews.go.com/US/italy-high-court-overturns-amanda-knox-acquittal-orders/story?id=18809434#.UVFqlxeG3TQ)** > > Amanda Knox was "shocked" by Italy's Supreme Court ruling today that she must be retried for the 2007 murder of her roommate Meredith Kercher. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/226 "2013-03-26T10:44:42Z")
I hope she doesn’t have to go back there. She’s been victimised enough by a deranged Prosecutor and the Italian justice system. What a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/227 "2013-03-26T15:36:52Z")
My understanding is that Italian law cannot compel her to return to Italy. I’m really shocked that this is up for retrial and that the prosecution would waste time and money bothering. I can’t for the life of me believe that anyone with the brains to go thru any kind of law school above the “mail in this coupon” level would think that there was actually a case here. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/228 "2013-03-26T15:50:08Z")
It could be the top court made the ruling to cover the embarrassment of the prosecutor (i.e. part of the brotherhood), never expecting a retrial to actually occur. The ruling does have the effect of preventing Knox (and Sollecito?) from ever returning to Italy, because if she did, the media circus would simply fire up again, and the prosecutor would face the embarrassment of a dismissal or acquittal at trial. Don’t look for an extradition request to occur, knowing the US has double jeopardy protection. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/229 "2013-03-26T17:54:08Z")
I doubt double jeopardy would apply. You can’t be tried twice, but a mistrial is not a trial. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/230 "2013-03-26T18:02:15Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > I doubt double jeopardy would apply. You can’t be tried twice, but a mistrial is not a trial. I’m not seeing it either. She was convicted at trial. An appeals court overturned it, and a higher appeals court ordered a retrial. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/231 "2013-03-26T18:07:19Z")
The appeals court didn’t rule a mistrial. They ruled an _acquittal_. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/232 "2013-03-26T18:28:30Z")
So, can the Italian authorities extradite contemptuous Dopers on slander charges? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/233 "2013-03-26T19:43:56Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The appeals court didn’t rule a mistrial. They ruled an _acquittal_. And then what happened? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/234 "2013-03-26T19:54:42Z")
Nothing of any meaning under US law. Which would guide the response to any extradition request. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/235 "2015-03-24T17:09:25Z")
Resurrecting this zombie thread yet again, because this is the murder case that Italy can’t or won’t let go of: [ > [@](#): > > American Amanda Knox and her Italian ex-boyfriend expect to learn their fate Wednesday when Italy’s highest court hears their appeal of their guilty verdicts in the brutal 2007 murder of Knox’s British roommate. Several outcomes are possible, including confirmation of the verdicts, a new appeals round, or even a ruling that amounts to an acquittal in the sensational case that has captivated audiences on both sides of the Atlantic. ]([http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU\_ITALY\_KNOX\_TRIAL\_WHAT\_IF?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-03-24-11-25-34](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_ITALY_KNOX_TRIAL_WHAT_IF?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-03-24-11-25-34)) The article provides some recap of what led to this: > [@](#): > > Knox, now 27, and Raffaele Sollecito, who turns 31 on Thursday, were convicted of the murder by a trial court in Perugia in 2009. They were freed in 2011 after a Perugia appellate court overturned the convictions. They found themselves back in an appellate court after the Court of Cassation vacated the acquittals in 2013 in a harsh rebuke of the Perugia chief appellate judge’s reasoning. > > Last year, an appeals court in Florence convicted the pair, sentencing Knox to 28 1/2 years and Sollecito to 25 years. The court ruled that the pair acted in concert with Rudy Hermann Guede, a drifter born in the Ivory Coast who is serving a 16-year sentence for his role in the murder. Italian justice is not like American justice: > [@](#): > > The high court can throw out all or any part of the Florence appeals court guilty verdict and order yet another appeals trial - the third in this case. It is not unprecedented in Italy for a case to be sent back to for multiple appellate rounds. In fact, one case involving the 1972 murder of a police commissioner reached the Court of Cassation nine times before the verdicts were finalized, 28 years after the murder. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/236 "2015-03-24T17:28:54Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I can’t for the life of me believe that anyone with the brains to go thru any kind of law school above the “mail in this coupon” level would think that there was actually a case here. We’re talking about Italy here – a third world country plus spaghetti. They literally convicted her of being a witch. No one, except people inclined to knee-jerk about how America is always worse, views this as anything but an incredibly backwards society refusing to admit that its entire legal system is a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/237 "2015-03-24T18:22:16Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > They literally convicted her of being a witch. No. Not literally. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/238 "2015-03-24T20:53:45Z")
As far as I can tell, in the US a prosecutor would not have been able to appeal a lower court’s acquittal in these circumstances. Is that a barrier to extradition? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/239 "2015-03-25T00:17:08Z")
Lengthy previous thread on double jeopardy and extradition, with comments from **Bricker** and others: “Amanda Knox and Double Jeopardy” > **[Amanda Knox and Double Jeopardy](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=686306)** > > Amanda Knox’s acquittal has been overturned by an Italian court. If, as seems likely to happen, a request is made that she be extradited from the US to Italy for a retrial, would her (US) Constitutional right to not be subject to double jeopardy... ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/240 "2015-03-25T05:50:39Z")
Gimme the reader’s digest version. Does the USA’s extradition treaty with Italy permit extradition into what the American justice system would consider double jeopardy? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474.md?page=13)