# Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are innocent victims of a rush to judgment **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474 "2009-10-12T01:39:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/261 "2015-03-31T16:35:45Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > Or some reprehensible charlatan will convince the Kerchers that he has the magic formula which will lead to justice for their daughter. Don’t they already have justice? They jailed that guy from the Ivory Coast right? It was him who originally pointed the finger Knox and her boyfriend at the time. He’s in jail, they got him, they have justice. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/262 "2015-03-31T17:38:30Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Thanks. But does a reversal bar a subsequent appeal to a still higher Court, and setting aside of reversal? No. A conviction overturned on direct appeal can be reinstated by the court of last resort. The specific issue in the Knox case (and this is from old memory) was that the lack of evidence at the original trial was the basis of the initial reversal. So remanding for a new trial did violate double jeopardy because the state (or whatever Italy calls itself as a party) was getting a second bite of the apple. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/263 "2015-03-31T18:01:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No. A conviction overturned on direct appeal can be reinstated by the court of last resort. The specific issue in the Knox case (and this is from old memory) was that the lack of evidence at the original trial was the basis of the initial reversal. So remanding for a new trial did violate double jeopardy because the state (or whatever Italy calls itself as a party) was getting a second bite of the apple. Wait they can restore a conviction, but cannot remand for new trial? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/264 "2015-03-31T18:04:37Z")
They can remand for a new trial for procedural errors. They can’t remand for a new trial _if the reason the original conviction could not be sustained_ was a lack of evidence, since the state had the burden of proof and failed to carry it. If the lack of evidence was because the trial court improperly excluded some of the state’s evidence, they could remand for a new trial since it wasn’t the state’s fault it didn’t have enough evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/265 "2015-03-31T18:22:24Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Who are you referring to in the part that I bolded? That would be the prosecutor, who has apparently watched too many 1980’s horror movies, and concocted a ridiculous scenario about Knox commiting the murder as part of some kind of Satanic ritual. Oh, and he was also accused of ordering illegal wiretaps in another case. That issue is apparently still ongoing. Class act, this guy. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/266 "2015-03-31T19:25:35Z")
Thanks for your perspective, but I was asking **Haberdash** ; his post seems to implicate Americans, but I have no idea who he means. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/267 "2015-04-02T20:51:30Z")
I have seen Americans in commentary outlets and on social media say that they are convinced Knox is guilty, or rather want her to spend the rest of her life in an Italian prison, for no reason other than “Americans always think they can get away with anything.” Certainly, anti-American sentiment also played a role in the original circus of her prosecution as well. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/268 "2015-04-02T21:10:12Z")
So between this, the Earthquake Detection case, and the Autism-Vaccine case, can we just write off the entire italian judiciary branch altogether? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/269 "2015-04-02T22:24:33Z")
Well, maybe. I’m pretty sure you could find three extremely stupid US court rulings, though. I’ll even give you a [head start](http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/05/us/texas-affluenza-teen/). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/270 "2015-04-03T02:19:21Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > I have seen Americans in commentary outlets and on social media say that they are convinced Knox is guilty, or rather want her to spend the rest of her life in an Italian prison, for no reason other than “Americans always think they can get away with anything.” Certainly, anti-American sentiment also played a role in the original circus of her prosecution as well. While I have no doubt you’ve seen this, I am highly doubtful that the number of Americans who think this is vanishingly small. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/271 "2015-09-07T13:12:08Z")
Finally, after more than 8 years, this is done.[ > [@](#): > > The Court of Cassation on Monday issued its formal written explanation, as required by Italian law, for its March ruling vindicating the pair once and for all in the legal battle over the 2007 murder of Meredith Kercher in Perugia, Italy. > > The court wrote there was an “absolute lack of biological traces” of Knox, an American, or co-defendant Raffaele Sollecitio in the room or on the body of the victim. Slamming the quality of the prosecution’s case, the court faulted the investigators for “blameworthy omissions of investigative activity.” ]([http://bigstory.ap.org/article/9b31c8e321064b2e83094602d152f46a/italy-top-court-knox-conviction-was-based-poor-case](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/9b31c8e321064b2e83094602d152f46a/italy-top-court-knox-conviction-was-based-poor-case)) No more appeals, no more trials, no more trepidation for either of them. Finito. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/272 "2015-09-07T14:24:31Z")
So, grounds for a civil suit by Knox and Sollecito? Their lives have been ruined already. Might as well go for broke. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/273 "2015-09-07T15:24:36Z")
It’s not really possible that there could have been literally no biological trace of them there–even if they were innocent-- given the time they spent there. Everybody sheds cells every day. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/274 "2015-09-07T15:41:54Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > So, grounds for a civil suit by Knox and Sollecito? Their lives have been ruined already. Might as well go for broke. I have a feeling they might want nothing more to do with the Italian legal system for the rest of their lives. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/275 "2015-09-08T11:56:11Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I have a feeling they might want nothing more to do with the Italian legal system for the rest of their lives. Any decent person will want nothing to do with any Judicial system if they can help it. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/276 "2015-09-08T12:49:15Z")
One of the high(?)lights of the court’s explanation, at least as reported: > [@](#): > > “The computers of Amanda Knox and Kercher, which perhaps could have furnished information useful to the investigation, were, incredibly, burned by imprudent maneuvers by the investigators, who caused an electric shock” apparently through a charging error, the panel of judges wrote. How in the name of Almighty Bob does an investigation team manage to burn out two computers that are being held as evidence? Color me paranoid, but the above makes it sound like the team didn’t _want_ the contents of the computers known. I’ve seen several comments that liken the prosecution team to the Keystone Kops. This comparison strikes me as insulting — and not to the prosecutors. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/277 "2015-09-08T13:54:20Z")
[“We are useless Italians and we haven’t built this properly.”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMqKlr5rsJA) ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/278 "2015-09-08T15:03:33Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > One of the high(?)lights of the court’s explanation, at least as reported:How in the name of Almighty Bob does an investigation team manage to burn out two computers that are being held as evidence? Color me paranoid, but the above makes it sound like the team didn’t _want_ the contents of the computers known. Yeah, this strikes me as the kind of “accident” that occurs because the investigators were trying to hide the fact that there wasn’t any evidence to show. If the computers have been reduced to smoldering junk, you can say anything you want was on there. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/279 "2015-09-08T15:05:50Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Finally, after more than 8 years, this is done.[url=[http://bigstory.ap.org/article/9b31c8e321064b2e83094602d152f46a/italy-top-court-knox-conviction-was-based-poor-case](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/9b31c8e321064b2e83094602d152f46a/italy-top-court-knox-conviction-was-based-poor-case)] > No more appeals, no more trials, no more trepidation for either of them. > > Finito. Jesus. Can you imagine having this hang over your head for _eight years_, knowing that you’re innocent? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/280 "2015-09-08T15:22:43Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > Jesus. Can you imagine having this hang over your head for _eight years_, knowing that you’re innocent? Can we be sure that they are factually innocent rather than legally innocent? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474.md?page=15)