# Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are innocent victims of a rush to judgment **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474 "2009-10-12T01:39:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/41 "2009-12-02T18:46:41Z")
Knox got involved with dangerous people. From what I’ve read she’s tied to the crime scene. Whether she actually used the knife or just held the girl is unknown. What bothers me is all the destruction Knox caused. Several families are shattered and will never fully recover. Newsweek reported on it. > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, her parents are broke, the victim’s parents are distraught, and even the lawyers who got involved with this case have come to regret it. The Knox trial is poison: nearly everyone it has touched so far has suffered irreparable psychological and financial harm. > **[Amanda Knox's Trial Has Already Ruined Many Lives](https://www.newsweek.com/amanda-knoxs-trial-has-already-ruined-many-lives-79385)** > > Regardless of the verdict, the trial of Amanda Knox has ruined the lives of almost everybody involved in it. The press coverage here has been spotty. The Italian jury has all the facts and they can make an informed decision. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/42 "2009-12-02T18:55:39Z")
Read the rest of this thread, **aceplace57**. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/43 "2009-12-02T19:10:57Z")
It seems to me that **aceplace** has already determined that Miss Knox is guilty. > [@aceplace57](#): > > I hope she spends the rest of her life in an Italian prison. Maybe that’s harsh, but **I’m sick of people breaking the law and getting away with it**. > [@aceplace57](#): > > From what I’ve read she’s tied to the crime scene. Whether **she actually used the knife or just held the girl** is unknown. > [@aceplace57](#): > > What bothers me is **all the destruction Knox caused**. What really funny tho is the admission: > [@aceplace57](#): > > The press coverage here has been spotty. The Italian jury has all the facts and they can make an informed decision. So I guess by adding looking at facebook photos to spotty information, **aceplace57** has been able to glean enough insight into Miss Knox to know that she is wicked and evil and guilty of this crime. :dubious: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/44 "2009-12-03T16:07:23Z")
The prosecution, the whole team, just [gets more and more bizarre every day](http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/AmandaKnox/amanda-knox-defendant-kill/story?id=9237162). > [@](#): > > Prosecutor Manuela Comodi concluded the prosecution’s case today by saying " a motive is not necessary to prove a murder." > > “The motive exists, and if you do not want to listen to it, then ok… It is logically conceivable. But even if the court decides that the motive does not stand up, it does not mean legally that the defendants cannot be found guilty,” Comodi said. > [@](#): > > She also countered the defense’s claim that Knox and Sollecito did not act like killers when they called the police after finding Kercher’s body. > > “The perpetrator of a crime is known to give the alarm in order to avert suspicion from himself,” a mechanism that does not require a criminal mind, she said. > [@](#): > > Comodi closed the prosecution’s case by comparing the stories of Sollecito, Knox and the prosecution to the children’s story TheThree Little Pigs. Sollecito and Knox built flimsy stories of straw and sticks, she said. > > “The third house, solid, and built brick on brick, is the prosecution. Not even one piece of the puzzle is missing,” she said. Not even one piece? How about the fucking motive? You know, the piece you just acknowledged was missing? ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/45 "2009-12-03T17:13:06Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Not even one piece? How about the fucking motive? You know, the piece you just acknowledged was missing? Funny you should mention motive. For me (amateur crime buff) following this story online, the single strangest bit of evidence involves motive. AIUI, a break-in was staged in the bedroom of the other roommate, Filomena, on the night of the murder. Who would have any motivation to do this? Following from that point of evidence and examining many other deatils of the case, it’s my belief that Knox & Sollecito did the murder. I’m perhaps not as convinced of their guilt as **aceplace57** , but I’d still bet a week’s wages that they were the killers. ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/46 "2009-12-03T17:28:59Z")
The evidence for the supposed staged break in is equally weak as the rest of the nonsense the police cooked up. There was a real break in, and the guy who did it was the guy whose DNA was found on the victim and is already in jail for the murder. He has a history of breaking into houses. But the police falsely accused two people before they knew this and refuse to accept the reality that they were wrong. I hope two innocent people don’t go to prison for life to cover up for the incompetence and egomania of the police. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/47 "2009-12-03T17:48:03Z")
> [@Dan\_Norder](#): > > The evidence for the supposed staged break in is equally weak as the rest of the nonsense the police cooked up. There was a real break in, and the guy who did it was the guy whose DNA was found on the victim and is already in jail for the murder. He has a history of breaking into houses. But the police falsely accused two people before they knew this and refuse to accept the reality that they were wrong. I hope two innocent people don’t go to prison for life to cover up for the incompetence and egomania of the police. Hmmm… I don’t know. From what I’ve read, the clothing and other objects that were strewn about Filomena’s room had shards of broken glass found _on top_ of them. So that leaves three possibilities as I see it: 1. There was a genuine break-in, and the burglar (for reasons unknown) went to the trouble of collecting all the broken glass, then ransacked the room, then scattered the glass on top of the items in the room. 2. There was a genuine break-in, but the police somehow bungled/tampered with the crime scene so as to give the appearance of a phony break-in. 3. There was no break-in, only a half-assed attempt to make it appear as so. I think we would agree that #1 is the unlikeliest of the alternatives. That leaves #2 and #3. You appear to support #2, whereas I believe #3 is correct. This is no minor matter. Never mind the knife or the bloody footprint - _this_, to me, is the lynchpin on which the whole investigation depends. I do not think that the police in Italy are necessarily any more incompetent or corrupt than their American colleagues. Obviously, YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/48 "2009-12-03T18:04:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Motive is not an element of the crime. It’s not something that the prosecution has to prove. The prosecution has to prove the accused committed criminal acts, and that there was an intent by those acts to accomplish certain ends. The reason the accused wanted those ends to happen is not part of the equation. Technically. And we see that’s what the prosecution said. From a legal standpoint what you say here makes sense. But in terms of logic it’s a great failure if you posit a baffling crime and then can’t explain why it happened - let alone the prosecution’s trouble in tying two people to the crime in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/49 "2009-12-03T19:08:01Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Hmmm… I don’t know. From what I’ve read, the clothing and other objects that were strewn about Filomena’s room had shards of broken glass found _on top_ of them. There’s a lot of news coverage that only republished what the police claimed and not what the defense had to say about it. From what I’ve read I have no doubt the break in was real. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/50 "2009-12-04T23:13:16Z")
Knox was found guilty of all charges. I’m shocked in spite of myself. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/51 "2009-12-04T23:24:30Z")
I dont claim to know what really happened, but I think Amanda Knox’s actions indicate that she was involved in the murder at some level, even if “just” trying to cover for the actual murderer. (who was very possibly her boyfriend) If that is indeed the case, she got what she had coming to her… (if she is truly innocent of any wrongdoing, she is in an awful spot, but her dishonesty after the crime was what put her there) ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/52 "2009-12-04T23:25:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Knox was found guilty of all charges. I’m shocked in spite of myself. I’m in shock too. I vote for railroaded. Nothing was concrete as far as her and her ex planning this murder or actually pulling it off. I think the Italian cops are reminiscent in their methods of investigation much like the cops in West Memphis, Arkansas. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/53 "2009-12-04T23:58:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Knox was found guilty of all charges. I’m shocked in spite of myself. > [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > I dont claim to know what really happened, but I think Amanda Knox’s actions indicate that she was involved in the murder at some level, even if “just” trying to cover for the actual murderer. (who was very possibly her boyfriend) My amateur theory of murder trials is that jurors want to convict when there’s been a heinous murder, as justice for the victim. Regardless of what the law says, they put it on the defendant to give them a good reason to acquit. Whether she was guilty or not, Knox acted guilty, and that prevented her from meeting her unofficial burden of proof. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/54 "2009-12-05T00:10:24Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > My amateur theory of murder trials is that jurors want to convict when there’s been a heinous murder, as justice for the victim. Regardless of what the law says, they put it on the defendant to give them a good reason to acquit. Whether she was guilty or not, Knox acted guilty, and that prevented her from meeting her unofficial burden of proof. Hear, hear. When one of the closest people around does drugs (DRUGS!) and plays sex games (She Plays SEX GAMES!?) what does she look like other than guilty? I don’t think she killed anyone, but what she DID know about this murder seems to remain a mystery. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/55 "2009-12-05T00:14:36Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > Hear, hear. When one of the closest people around does drugs (DRUGS!) and plays sex games (She Plays SEX GAMES!?) what does she look like other than guilty? Well, I was thinking more of her changing her story. Maybe you’re right too; I just don’t know how an Italian jury would react to drugs and sex games. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/56 "2009-12-05T00:27:17Z")
Anyone know if the U.S. and Italy has a prisoner exchange program? I’ve heard some American prisoners in Mexico serve their time in U.S. prisons. It would make things easier for Amanda’s parents if she served time in a U.S. prison. But, I’m not sure if it’s possible. From my limited knowledge of the case, the killing sounded personal. I doubt some deranged psycho wandered in there and killed her. I’m reasonably sure Amanda and her deviant friends were involved. But, my opinion doesn’t matter. A jury decided she’s guilty. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/57 "2009-12-05T00:29:50Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > My amateur theory of murder trials is that jurors want to convict when there’s been a heinous murder, as justice for the victim. Regardless of what the law says, they put it on the defendant to give them a good reason to acquit. Whether she was guilty or not, Knox acted guilty, and that prevented her from meeting her unofficial burden of proof. I can see this happening in a lot of cases, and it is certainly a possibility here, as I am not convinced what Amanda’s “true” role was (if any), and I admit that there are some serious questions about what actually happened. I would hope that justice has been served, but I have to say if it was an American trial, “reasonable doubt” would be in play. That said, my gut says Amanda Knox was somehow involved in the murder, even if “only” to help attempt cover up the crime after the fact… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/58 "2009-12-05T00:39:09Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > My amateur theory of murder trials is that jurors want to convict when there’s been a heinous murder, as justice for the victim. Probably true, but I think the salaciousness and the insane press coverage had a lot to do with this. > [@aceplace57](#): > > I doubt some deranged psycho wandered in there and killed her. Nobody’s posited a deranged psycho was involved. They’ve said the killer was the other man convicted in the case, who had sex with Kercher and later fled the country. When caught, he did what all innocent people do: blamed it on a deranged psycho. > [@](#): > > I’m reasonably sure Amanda and her deviant friends were involved. I think a majority of people in the U.S. have tried pot, and particularly so among college students. Ditto having sex. I’m not sure what’s deviant about that. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/59 "2009-12-05T00:45:13Z")
I am no expert, but from what I have heard, she may be a lot better off in a European prison, which are often much more lenient with the prisoners (wine with meals on holidays?) and are sometimes structured much like a university campus, (but with fences and gaurds) and are just (supposedly) generally safer and more well run than the average US prison. In a report I just watched (ABC National News) they said that it IS possible that Knox could be transfered to an American prison back home, but if she opted for that, she would have to serve the entire 26 year sentence, while if she stays in Italian custody, she has a shot at getting out sooner on parole… ETA–Of course , she might want to be back near her family in the US, even if it means spending more total time behind bars. ---
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/60 "2009-12-05T02:07:29Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > My amateur theory of murder trials is that jurors want to convict when there’s been a heinous murder, as justice for the victim. Regardless of what the law says, they put it on the defendant to give them a good reason to acquit. Whether she was guilty or not, Knox acted guilty, and that prevented her from meeting her unofficial burden of proof. Agreed. I think this is a travesty. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474.md?page=4)