# Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are innocent victims of a rush to judgment **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474 "2009-10-12T01:39:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/61 "2009-12-05T02:12:06Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > I am no expert, but from what I have heard, she may be a lot better off in a European prison, which are often much more lenient with the prisoners (wine with meals on holidays?) and are sometimes structured much like a university campus, (but with fences and gaurds) and are just (supposedly) generally safer and more well run than the average US prison. While Irish jails seem to be safer than American ones (assuming the portrayals of automatic butt-rape by a big black guy named ‘Bud’ are true), prisoners in parts of Mountjoy prison have to shit in a bucket, then slop out. Not all European prisons are lovely, but on the whole they sound better than yours, but that could just be the media’s take. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/62 "2009-12-05T02:25:22Z")
After just reading a bit more on the verdict, I want to finally say that IF Amanda Knox was indeed guilty of participating in this brutal murder, I hope the next 26 years of her life is a living hell on Earth-----Both for commiting such a senseless, evil crime and also for destroying her entire family in trying to evade justice. I just saw that her parents (divorced) are in debt over $1,000,000 total between them, due to lawyer fees, travel expenses and assorted other costs. Her siblings are fucked, with any college funds they may have once had coming spent on big sisters defense. If guilty, she should have at least had the decency to plead guilty, which may have allowed her parents to accept it as the truth, saved them hundreds of thousands of dollars and maybe gotten herself a reduced sentence in the bargain… What a bullshit waste, and all for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/63 "2009-12-05T02:26:37Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > What a bullshit waste, and all for nothing. I was thinking the same thing for the opposite reason. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/64 "2009-12-05T03:05:11Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > I just saw that her parents (divorced) are in debt over $1,000,000 total between them, due to lawyer fees, travel expenses and assorted other costs. Her siblings are fucked, with any college funds they may have once had coming spent on big sisters defense. If guilty, she should have at least had the decency to plead guilty, which may have allowed her parents to accept it as the truth, saved them hundreds of thousands of dollars and maybe gotten herself a reduced sentence in the bargain… > > What a bullshit waste, and all for nothing. As part of the guilty verdict she and her boyfriend now jointly also owe 5 million Euros restitution to the victim’s family and she alone owes another 40,000 Euros to a man she falsely accused of the killing. > **[Amanda Knox sobs as guilty verdict read - CNN.com](https://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/04/italy.knox.trial/index.html)** > > An Italian jury has found American student Amanda Knox and her Italian boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito guilty in the stabbing death of British exchange student Meredith Kercher. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/65 "2009-12-05T03:08:38Z")
Yep, criminal and civil trial all wrapped up into one package, with neither the judges nor the jury sequestered. [And her parents are both under investigation as well](http://abcnews.go.com/International/amanda-knoxs-parents-investigated-alleged-defamation/story?id=9196514). > [@](#): > > The parents of Amanda Knox arrived in Italy Thursday to support their daughter in the final days of her trial for murder, and were promptly informed by Italian authorities that they are under investigation for defamation – allegedly for accusing police of beating Amanda. > > Curt Knox and Edda Mellas are being investigated and could spend time in prison. > > In a June 2008 interview with the British Sunday Times newspaper, the two said that Amanda was “abused physically and verbally” by police in the course of an interrogation. They also told the Sunday Times that Amanda told them that she “was hit in the back of the head by a police officer with an open hand at least twice.” ---
**Author:** ![Skara\_Brae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Skara\_Brae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skara_Brae)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/66 "2009-12-05T04:55:46Z")
What about Amanda’s alleged behavior during the trial. The accounts that I have read said she was openly laughing, blowing kisses to her boyfriend, etc? Was there any truth to that? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/67 "2009-12-05T05:05:17Z")
Meredith Kercher, rest in peace. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/68 "2009-12-05T05:37:22Z")
Let me just ask this: Is it possible that this is like some believe the problem was with the OJ trial - that the police framed a guilty party? ---
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/69 "2009-12-05T05:48:48Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Let me just ask this: > Is it possible that this is like some believe the problem was with the OJ trial - that the police framed a guilty party? IMHO, no, they’re innocent and they’ve been convicted because people are more interested in judging facebook photos and alleged courtroom behavior rather than the actual evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/70 "2009-12-05T08:22:03Z")
> [@Skara\_Brae](#): > > What about Amanda’s alleged behavior during the trial. The accounts that I have read said she was openly laughing, blowing kisses to her boyfriend, etc? Was there any truth to that? I think the media interest in the case has been so high that there’s a lot of conflicting reports - I read the exact opposite for example, that they’ve barely exchanged a glance throughout (reported in the Guardian). I’d err on the side of guilty myself, for reasons others have already set out. That said, I don’t understand the separation of the Ivorian guy’s trial with this one. He’s already been found guilty of the crime under a ‘fast-track’ trial, and now two others have been found guilty of the same crime? Was some sort of comprehensive version of the facts presented that involved the three of them, or do the two trials not need to communicate with one another, so to speak? A fast-track trial is an unfortunate piece of terminology - doesn’t make one think of a weighty, deliberate movement of justice. _Son, we’re really busy, and seen as you’re a broke-ass African drifter, we’ll just send you down for 30 years if that’s OK._ ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/71 "2009-12-05T15:19:41Z")
> [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > I’d err on the side of guilty myself, for reasons others have already set out. :eek: 😕 ---
**Author:** ![manila](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@manila](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manila)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/72 "2009-12-05T16:54:34Z")
My opinion is just based on what has been shown on the Italian media here so its as valid as anyones not sat on the jury I suppose. I don’t think she did herself any favours. She was quick to throw an innocent guy under the bus. And she didn’t deny her bizarre handstands and splits at the police station. Or her going out to buy sex toys and underwear the day after the murder. Although she did say that the underwear was necessary because the police had sealed her apartment. Her lack of consistency or signs of anymutual testimony with her co accused is puzzling but her other room mate’s testimony Romanelli I think did her the most damage. My gut feeling is that she probably did not kill Meredith personally but I do think she is complicit. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/73 "2009-12-05T17:21:08Z")
I’ve been reading several British news sites. The family of Meredith Kercher feel they received justice. > **[BBC News - Two guilty of Meredith Kercher murder](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8396713.stm)** > > American student Amanda Knox and her former boyfriend have been found guilty of the murder of Briton Meredith Kercher in the Italian town of Perugia. > **[BBC News - Kercher family 'pleased' with murder trial verdicts](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8396848.stm)** > > The family of Meredith Kercher have said they are "pleased" with the convictions of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito The American press has done a very poor job of covering the trial. We got several interviews of Amanda’s family swearing she’s innocent. No surprises there. I’d like to hear reporting about Amanda’s childhood and high school years. There’s usually a pattern of behavioral issues that can be traced. It’s always disturbing to see women commit violent crimes. It’s not what we normally expect. Women are traditionally mothers and nurturers. But, the world is changing. We’re seeing more and more cases where women like Amanda Knox and Casey Anthony are doing horrible twisted things. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/74 "2009-12-05T18:01:59Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Reporting on this case has been slanted in this country, but then again, when you have a prosecutor alleging Satanic drug and sex abuse culminating in murder, the case is likely to be pure bullshit. > She’s told some contradictory stories, but when someone is accused of murder and is trying to cover up drug use, I don’t find that really surprising. It’s extremely unwise, but not surprising. As unwise as it may have been, my mind boggles that, on such flimsy evidence, she was convicted and now faces a sentence not much less than what Susan Atkins and Leslie Van Houten got. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/75 "2009-12-05T19:20:03Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’ve been reading several British news sites. The family of Meredith Kercher feel they received justice. > > [BBC News - Two guilty of Meredith Kercher murder](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8396713.stm) > [BBC News - Kercher family 'pleased' with murder trial verdicts](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8396848.stm) So…these links only say (a) she’s been convicted, as we know; and (b) the family of the victim believes that justice has been served, as we would expect. There’s nothing there, and I haven’t seen anything anywhere else to convince me that she’s really guilty. > [@](#): > > It’s always disturbing to see women commit violent crimes. It’s not what we normally expect. Women are traditionally mothers and nurturers. But, the world is changing. We’re seeing more and more cases where women like Amanda Knox and Casey Anthony are doing horrible twisted things. Amanda Knox may not be a nurturer. But that she is, or was, anything worse than a hard-partying girl-gone-wild university student isn’t clear to me at all. I’d like to hear about her childhood and high school years too, but I doubt there’s a red flag there. You mentioned possible behavioral issues. With the caveat I’m not an expert here, it just doesn’t make sense. The kind of background behavioral issues we usually see in violent criminals include utter rejection of societal expectations. The person drops out of high school, or if they haven’t dropped out, they are constantly in trouble for fighting, substance abuse, disrupting class, and truancy. College is rarely if ever in the picture for them. They certainly don’t go on to the University of Washington, become [honor students](http://www.seattlepi.com/local/338664_knox08.html) in foreign languages, and live the dream of a year’s study abroad in another country. Is it absolutely impossible for her to have actually done it? Of course not, but I’m sure not convinced that she did. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/76 "2009-12-05T19:48:54Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I find Amanda Knox an embarrassment to the U.S. She’s a guest in a foreign country and supposedly getting an education. Instead she’s partying, doing drugs, and screwing every thing in sight. She gets mixed up in a murder and openly laughs about it at the police station. I’ve seen all the facebook pics of her. An alley cat has more morals. Sweet, Tom Wolfe finally started posting! ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/77 "2009-12-05T20:51:38Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Is it absolutely impossible for her to have actually done it? Of course not, but I’m sure not convinced that she did. 11 months of courtroom evidence reduced to a feeling. And I am sure you are absolutely earnest in believing in the correctness of your view. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/78 "2009-12-05T21:00:42Z")
I always enjoy the presumption many Americans take that foreign courts are all marsupial, and that any time someone from this country is charged with a crime abroad they get railroaded, convicted on emotional evidence, or that the foreign judicial system is corrupt and/or unjust. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/79 "2009-12-05T21:07:26Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > I always enjoy the presumption many Americans take that foreign courts are all marsupial, and that any time someone from this country is charged with a crime abroad they get railroaded, convicted on emotional evidence, or that the foreign judicial system is corrupt and/or unjust. I always enjoy the presumption many from “insert name of country” take that American courts are all marsupial, and that any time someone from “insert name of country” is charged with a crime in the U.S. they get railroaded, convicted on emotional evidence, or that the U.S. judicial system is corrupt and/or unjust. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474/80 "2009-12-05T21:25:28Z")
Do we ever get to know what the jury’s vote was? Was it unanimous, or split down the middle or what? Personally, (and yes as an American), I see the majority vote jury as being the biggest issue with the Italian system. You can always get a certain number of people, perhaps a majority of the people, to go along with whatever the prosecution says and making it be unanimous helps assure that there will be at least one person on there with a conscience and also forces the jury to actually work out the issues. If this case were held in the US, do you really think it only would have taken them 11 hours to get a guilty verdict? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-are-innocent-victims-of-a-rush-to-judgment/513474.md?page=5)