# Amanda Knox's parents accused of libel **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 15, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504 "2011-02-15T22:43:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504/21 "2011-02-16T19:27:38Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > The only ones on trial for defamation are Knox’s parents. Please familiarize yourself with the concept of a chilling effect. I doubt Italy has the jurisdiction to charge people in other countries who are speaking about it, but regardless, I doubt the court is aiming its actions at a non-domestic audience. > [@](#): > > Dearth of forensic evidence? Satanic sex ritual? You really need to educate yourself about the case if you’re going to be making sweeping statements and mis-characteriztions like that. I’ve read more than enough about the case (this is not the first thread about it). Other than the bit about Guede, what I wrote was correct. He didn’t get a lesser sentence in exchange for his testimony, but he did later have his sentenced reduced and the court cited his testimony against the others. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504/22 "2011-02-16T23:07:41Z")
Since nobody else is doing it, I should probably [link to the Pit thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=597311) on the charges against the Knoxes. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504/23 "2011-02-17T02:18:36Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’ve read more than enough about the case (this is not the first thread about it). Other than the bit about Guede, what I wrote was correct. He didn’t get a lesser sentence in exchange for his testimony, but he did later have his sentenced reduced and the court cited his testimony against the others. …there was a dearth of forensic evidence against Scott Peterson, but that doesn’t put his conviction in doubt. There were no accusations of satanic sex rituals produced in court: this had no influence on the trial: as can be seen by the motivations report, which, I assume you have read? So if satanic sex rituals weren’t bought up in court and had no relevance to the conviction of Amanda, why did you bring it up? Can you provide any cites to what the prosecution actually did in relation to satanic sex rituals? Here is the previous thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=535590&page=5&highlight=Amanda+knox](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=535590&page=5&highlight=Amanda+knox) You will note the lack of primary cites in that thread. If you want to show that the evidence was mishandled then cite that and please don’t just say “its in the other threads”, because I can’t find it. You should know better than anyone else that you should cite your assertions or not make them. I’ll state my position again: I have no problems with an innocent Amanda. If she wins the next appeal based on the defense they put up and problems with the prosecution and she is released then all is good in the world. However in my opinion there is more than enough evidence to convict Amanda and I believe the guilty verdict was the correct one. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504/24 "2011-02-17T02:26:29Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …there was a dearth of forensic evidence against Scott Peterson, but that doesn’t put his conviction in doubt. The remaining evidence against Peterson was a lot more convincing. > [@](#): > > There were no accusations of satanic sex rituals produced in court I didn’t say there were. But the prosecutor did say Kercher was killed as part of a Satanic sex game. I think the transparent stupidity of the story casts doubt on what followed. > [@](#): > > If you want to show that the evidence was mishandled then cite that [I was referring to some of the issues raised here](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/18/amanda-knox-dna-appeal) (like “the discovery of Sollecito’s DNA on Kercher’s torn bra clasp, found in her room 49 days after her death, during which time it had been moved accidentally by investigators.” ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504/25 "2011-02-17T02:40:34Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The remaining evidence against Peterson was a lot more convincing. …really? How so? And why are you more convinced by the circumstantial evidence in the Peterson case than that of the Knox case? > [@](#): > > I didn’t say there were. But the prosecutor did say Kercher was killed as part of a Satanic sex game. I think the transparent stupidity of the story casts doubt on what followed. Surely you could provide a cite to what the prosecutor actually said then we can actually see how stupid there statements are in context? So cite please. > [@](#): > > [I was referring to some of the issues raised here](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/18/amanda-knox-dna-appeal) (like “the discovery of Sollecito’s DNA on Kercher’s torn bra clasp, found in her room 49 days after her death, during which time it had been moved accidentally by investigators.” Sure: that evidence is under review. But the case doesn’t hinge on the bra-clasp evidence, as a reading of the motivations report will bear out. And it also isn’t evidence yet that evidence was mishandled: that can only be confirmed after the review, wouldn’t you agree? Do you think the appeal and review is a bad part of the Italian justice system? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504/26 "2011-02-17T04:07:01Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > Could the US be asked to extradite the parents? While I think of it, the US government has passed laws making this sort of “libel tourism” unenforceable against Americans. So even if the Italians tried, they would not succeed. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504/27 "2011-02-17T04:08:27Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Surely you could provide a cite to what the prosecutor actually said then we can actually see how stupid there statements are in context? So cite please. Well … [ > [@The Times](#): > > Italian prosecutors yesterday accused Amanda Knox of stabbing to death the Leeds Univeristy exchange student Meredith Kercher in a satanic ritual with the complicity of her former boyfriend and an Ivory Coast drifter. > > […] > > The prosecutors “laid out a scenario like from some crime novel”, Sollecito’s lawyer Luca Maori said. He added that they “alleged it was some kind of satanic rite, with Amanda allegedly first touching Meredith with the point of a knife, then slitting her throat, while Sollecito held her by the shoulders, from behind, Guede held her by an arm” and tried to sexually assault her. ]([http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4968044.ece](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4968044.ece)) Can’t find a cite that doesn’t seem to refer, ultimately, to Maori’s statement, so take from that what you will. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504/28 "2011-02-17T04:28:16Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > While I think of it, the US government has passed laws making this sort of “libel tourism” unenforceable against Americans. So even if the Italians tried, they would not succeed. No they haven’t. They passed a law preventing US courts from enforcing certain civil libel judgments against Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504/29 "2011-02-20T00:46:12Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Dearth of forensic evidence? Satanic sex ritual? You really need to educate yourself about the case if you’re going to be making sweeping statements and mis-characteriztions like that LOL. If you’re not aware of either of those facts then you haven’t read much of anything about the case yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504/30 "2011-02-20T08:16:01Z")
> [@Dan\_Norder](#): > > LOL. If you’re not aware of either of those facts then you haven’t read much of anything about the case yourself. …so you can’t provide a cite either, huh? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504/31 "2011-02-20T10:04:40Z")
I’m sure the State Dept. will do everything they can to prevent the prosecution and/or punishment of Amanda’s parents in this case. I hope they also tell her parents to shut up and not make libelous accusations about the police in Italy. If she really is innocent, the State Dept. resources would be better utilized in gaining her freedom. ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504/32 "2011-02-20T14:17:16Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …so you can’t provide a cite either, huh? Cites have already been provided. The fact that you consistently ignore them doesn’t change anything. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504/33 "2011-02-21T03:09:59Z")
> [@Dan\_Norder](#): > > Cites have already been provided. The fact that you consistently ignore them doesn’t change anything. …ha ha! My turn to laugh. As I pointed out in the other thread: you were the OP and posted many times but cited nothing. Allegations have been made in this thread about the prosecutions “satanic sex theory.” Instead of pointing and laughing at others: you could instead provide a cite to the satanic sex theory that the prosecution came up with, or withdraw. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504/34 "2011-02-21T11:26:16Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Both. But arrest warrants don’t typically work quite the same way in Europe. Perhaps not, but I cannot believe that Italy would allow a person, charged with a significant crime, to enter or leave the country without answering those charges. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504/35 "2011-02-21T12:21:32Z")
[How about this one for a cite?](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20003238-504083.html) ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504/36 "2011-02-21T12:51:58Z")
> [@Dan\_Norder](#): > > LOL. If you’re not aware of either of those facts then you haven’t read much of anything about the case yourself. Nonsense. Marley23 made significant multiple errors in his statements about the Kercher case, which have still not been fully corrected (and which should give a rational observer cause for reflection that perhaps his assessment of the case may be in error). A well-practiced tactic of Knox defenders is to attack the safety of her conviction by impugning the competence, integrity or motivation of the prosecution. However, a reading of the court’s 397-page (English translation) rationale for their judgment reveals this to be unfounded. As said earlier by Banquet Bear: _“There were no accusations of satanic sex rituals produced in court: this had no influence on the trial: as can be seen by the motivations report, which, I assume you have read? So if satanic sex rituals weren’t bought up in court and had no relevance to the conviction of Amanda, why did you bring it up? Can you provide any cites to what the prosecution actually did in relation to satanic sex rituals?”_ (Another point - Marley23, continues the fundamental error of referring to “the” prosecutor in this case, when as should be evident to anyone with passing knowledge of the case that there were in fact _two_ prosecutors. Is Manuela Comodi also part of the “Satan-busting conspiracy”?) ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504/37 "2011-02-21T14:42:00Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > [How about this one for a cite?](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20003238-504083.html) No offense, **FinnAgain** , but that is not a cite. That is an unattributed blurb written by a US television producer who cites only Mario Spezi and Douglas Preston, the authors of a book about how awful the Italian prosecutor is. The Italian prosecutor IS awful, but the American press coverage of this case, especially US television coverage, has been embarrassingly one-sided and shallow. “Amanda is American! And hawt! She’s innocent, see? Here’s an interview with her mom and dad to prove it!” I don’t think she killed that girl, but I do think she was there. I hope she gets out of jail in a couple years and then we can stop hearing about this. But yes, this Italian prosecution of the parents is embarrassing, undemocratic, and symbolic of how bad things have gotten under Berlusconi. How can you have an open and free society if you can’t criticize the government and judiciary? Shameful, really. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504/38 "2011-02-21T14:55:09Z")
Weird… that’s the third time in as many weeks that I’ve had the wrong link in my cut and paste cache. Ah well, I’m not sure what site in specific I was looking at, but quite a few have republished the allegation that the prosecution referred to the killing as satanic/ritualistic/something-of-the-sort. That it wasn’t an officially made claim, in writing, doesn’t mean that it didn’t inform the prosecution’s conduct. When I’m not so tired perhaps I’ll dig up another link… sorry about the confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504/39 "2011-02-21T15:02:34Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Weird… that’s the third time in as many weeks that I’ve had the wrong link in my cut and paste cache. Ah well, I’m not sure what site in specific I was looking at, but quite a few have republished the allegation that the prosecution referred to the killing as satanic/ritualistic/something-of-the-sort. That it wasn’t an officially made claim, in writing, doesn’t mean that it didn’t inform the prosecution’s conduct. > > When I’m not so tired perhaps I’ll dig up another link… sorry about the confusion. No problem. I was just annoyed with the CBS 48 Hours “news article.” Unfortunately, it is undeniable that the prosecution in this case has been abominably bad. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504/40 "2011-02-21T15:20:49Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > No offense, **FinnAgain** , but that is not a cite. That is an unattributed blurb written by a US television producer who cites only Mario Spezi and Douglas Preston, the authors of a book about how awful the Italian prosecutor is. Well, as I cited above, Knox’s defense attorney has _claimed_ that the prosecutor put forth a satanic ritual theory. That’s about the best you can do (I think), but – given the prosecutor’s history – this doesn’t appear to be much of a stretch. Which says nothing about whether she’s guilty. I have no opinion on whether the investigation was botched, as my only knowledge of this case comes from looking for that cite; but I’m frankly baffled by the libel charge, and just as baffled that some here are defending it (e.g. in the relevant pit thread). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amanda-knoxs-parents-accused-of-libel/571504.md?page=3)