# Amazing Grace, verse meaning? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 22, 2009, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-grace-verse-meaning/511074 "2009-09-22T13:31:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-grace-verse-meaning/511074/21 "2009-09-23T04:39:26Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Actually that passage encapsulates why I don’t like most of TP’s ouevre. Really? From your name I’d say you were an Irish Catholic by upbringing, and from my experience the Protestants seem to believe that Grace comes from, well, I dunno where, while the Catholics accept that Grace was brought on Pentecost with the Holy Spirit and, if one leaves the slightest opening, it can be slammed into your soul. This happened to John Newton, though he continued in his Protestant beliefs. Guess it didn’t hit him hard enough, though it didn’t help that he was English. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-grace-verse-meaning/511074/22 "2009-09-23T05:15:34Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I gotta read that book. Assuming neither author has pissed me off with their earlier works. Which, unfortunately, they have. ☹ How has Pratchett pissed you off? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-grace-verse-meaning/511074/23 "2009-09-23T05:25:23Z")
_Where’s My Cow?_? I thought it was cute, myself. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-grace-verse-meaning/511074/24 "2009-09-23T06:12:30Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > How has Pratchett pissed you off? Usually happens in the first few sentences, which saves me a lot of reading. An old rule of thumb, but one that saves me from buying the book. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-grace-verse-meaning/511074/25 "2009-09-23T19:49:57Z")
I’ve never liked the bird-sharpening-its-beak-on-the-mountain example, because not only does it describe a finite time, it’s a really pathetically short finite time compared to some of the big (but still finite) numbers mathematicians can come up with. Now, when you learn about, say, [Graham’s number](http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GrahamsNumber.html), and then realize that that’s still finite, too, and that any infinite number is incomprehensibly greater than _that_, then you’ve maybe got some glimmer of an understanding of what “infinite” means. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-grace-verse-meaning/511074/26 "2009-09-23T20:49:55Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Now, when you learn about, say, [Graham’s number](http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GrahamsNumber.html), and then realize that that’s still finite, too, and that any infinite number is incomprehensibly greater than _that_, then you’ve maybe got some glimmer of an understanding of what “infinite” means. Is there really such a thing as an infinite number? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-grace-verse-meaning/511074/27 "2009-09-23T21:25:04Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Really? From your name I’d say you were an Irish Catholic by upbringing, and from my experience the Protestants seem to believe that Grace comes from, well, I dunno where, while the Catholics accept that Grace was brought on Pentecost with the Holy Spirit and, if one leaves the slightest opening, it can be slammed into your soul. This happened to John Newton, though he continued in his Protestant beliefs. Guess it didn’t hit him hard enough, though it didn’t help that he was English. I’ve read this and reread this post a number of times and I can’t figure out how it pertains to what I said earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-grace-verse-meaning/511074/28 "2009-09-23T22:05:14Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Is there really such a thing as an infinite number? Yes, and there are many of them. There are infinitely many rational numbers, but there are provably more irrational numbers (more than infinity). :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-grace-verse-meaning/511074/29 "2009-09-23T22:28:34Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Yes, and there are many of them. There are infinitely many rational numbers, but there are provably more irrational numbers (more than infinity). :eek: I get that some infinities are larger than others. It just seems to me that trying to compare a finite number to something that is infinite is a non-starter. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-grace-verse-meaning/511074/30 "2009-09-23T23:02:06Z")
> [@](#): > > It just seems to me that trying to compare a finite number to something that is infinite is a non-starter. Hence Douglas Adams’s proof that the universe is devoid of life. From memory it goes like this: The universe contains an infinite number of worlds Not all of these worlds are inhabited. Ergo, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds Any finite number divided by infinity is as close to zero as makes no odds, so the universe is virtually lifeless. Ain’t math and logic fun? ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-grace-verse-meaning/511074/31 "2009-09-24T14:59:41Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Shouldn’t is be “no _fewer_ days to sing God’s praise”? That’s gonna bug me now. I’m not sure which is worse: that I listen to Air Supply, or that I belt out “Two Fewer Lonely People in the World” to drown out their error. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Ronald\_C.Semone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cc9497/32.png) [@Ronald\_C.Semone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ronald_C.Semone)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-grace-verse-meaning/511074/32 "2009-09-24T17:57:39Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Really? From your name I’d say you were an Irish Catholic by upbringing, and from my experience the Protestants seem to believe that Grace comes from, well, I dunno where, while the Catholics accept that Grace was brought on Pentecost with the Holy Spirit and, if one leaves the slightest opening, it can be slammed into your soul. This happened to John Newton, though he continued in his Protestant beliefs. Guess it didn’t hit him hard enough, though it didn’t help that he was English. I think you are confused. One of the great divides that separates Catholic and Protestant theologians is the question of the source of salvation. The Catholic theologians say it results from “Good Works”, i.e. you earn it. Protestant theologians say it is “God’s Grace” i.e. a gift from God that all the good works in the world will not earn you. “Amazing Grace” comes down solidly on the Protestant side. And so, although I love the song and have 25 or 30 versions of it, as a Catholic, I have to reject its central message. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-grace-verse-meaning/511074/33 "2009-09-24T18:13:43Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > It’s not a metaphor; you just didn’t follow the logic. After 10,000 years, we’ve “no less days” left then when we’d started. If we were only going to have 20,000 years, or any finite number of years, we’d have 10,000 years fewer at that point. > > Since after 10,000 years the number of days left to us has not dwindled, we’re in for eternity. > > Shouldn’t is be “no _fewer_ days to sing God’s praise”? That’s gonna bug me now. You mean Newton anticipated Cantor on transfinite numbers?! :o 😃 (BTW, I agree with all your comments here, on a more serious note.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-grace-verse-meaning/511074.md?page=1)