# Amazing Race 12/05 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 6, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-race-12-05/563094 "2010-12-06T01:34:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-race-12-05/563094/41 "2010-12-07T17:56:47Z")
I’m also having a tough time understanding why it’s some sort of catastrophe if there were to “fake” a restaurant. Do fake restaurants help gross girls win or something? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-race-12-05/563094/42 "2010-12-07T18:05:09Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I’m also having a tough time understanding why it’s some sort of catastrophe if there were to “fake” a restaurant. Do fake restaurants help gross girls win or something? Well that’s just it. That had nothing to do with letting girls win - he just thinks the producers are always trying to trick us. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-race-12-05/563094/43 "2010-12-07T18:06:20Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Where are the globetrooters, the detectives, the brothers, the cowboys? Not one competitive all-male team, and by my count there were three competitive all-girl teams if we include the surprisingly ineffective volleyballers. The Globetrotters (as much as I loved them) weren’t super swift. The Detectives and the Brothers seemed to bumble their way into the end. Neither one was a strong team and I was actually astounded that the Brothers got as far as they did even though it seemed like they were going to blow it at any moment. ETA: I thought you meant the Brothers of Sam & Dan from TAR15. Dan & Jordan of TAR16 weren’t really much better and were almost eliminated a ton of times. > [@EllisDee](#): > > They still had the intricate challenges (assemble a bike) and the eating challenges and the subtle perception challenges (toy model sitting behind them at the top of the tower), but don’t they also usually have physical challenges? This season’s only physical challenges were carrying bricks, unless I’m forgetting one? The ascender challenge in one of the first episodes. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-race-12-05/563094/44 "2010-12-07T18:15:06Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Well that’s just it. That had nothing to do with letting girls win - he just thinks the producers are always trying to trick us. Well, that’s definitely true. But the whole season is a trick since they don’t actually run the race live and the producers already know who wins! The fix is in! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Helena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c68b51/32.png) [@Helena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-race-12-05/563094/45 "2010-12-07T18:24:21Z")
I was amused listening to them trying to pronounce Mok Dong. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-race-12-05/563094/46 "2010-12-07T18:33:26Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > The Globetrotters (as much as I loved them) weren’t super swift. > > The Detectives and the Brothers seemed to bumble their way into the end. Neither one was a strong team and I was actually astounded that the Brothers got as far as they did even though it seemed like they were going to blow it at any moment. > > ETA: I thought you meant the Brothers of Sam & Dan from TAR15. Dan & Jordan of TAR16 weren’t really much better and were almost eliminated a ton of times. More reason why they shouldn’t need to stack the deck for the all-female teams, even if only by casting. I agree with your assessment of the globetrotters, the detectives and both sets of brothers, but I would also say that all of those teams could easily beat the glee club every leg of the race. It’s debatable how the deck was stacked for the all-female teams this season. If it’s just me and **Fenris** who see the challenges as being nerfed compared to other seasons, I’ll readily concede that point. But I think it’s pretty inarguable that casting alone stacked the deck pretty heavily. (EDIT: Specifically, the deck was stacked against an all-male team winning. I think the beauty queens from a couple seasons ago could have won this season.) ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-race-12-05/563094/47 "2010-12-07T18:48:28Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Yeah, I can’t understand why a mental or searching or detail task is somehow less of a race than something requiring you to lift heavy weights. You’re conflating two arguments I’m making. A mental or detail task is just as (or more than) challenging as a physical one. Unless you deliberately change the task to make it “easier” (as the producers perceive it)\* to let a pair of women win. Ever since the Bowling Moms (s4? s5?) the producers have been warping seasons (not all of them) to try to force an all-female team to win. Having seasons consisting mostly of morons with one or two smart women teams isn’t a real race. There have been a ton (as I’ve said repeatedly) of super-competent women teams in races that weren’t handicapped on their behalf. But starting the race with the “big ‘alpha male’” team because the Producers don’t think that an all-woman team can win against one is handicapping the race. Changing tasks to make it easier for your preferred team to win (like not having a grueling physical task in the last leg–when there’s ALWAYS a grueling physical task in the last leg)or manipulating real-world stuff (as they did when they called a plane back that had actually departed from the runway to allow an all-black team to get into the final two)\*. It’s not that I don’t think women can win the race, I don’t think the race needs to be crippled as I believe the producers are doing to get the outcome that they want for a woman team to win. \*and for the thin-skinned out there, of course a strong black team can win. Several have–without the producers cheating on their behalf. Same with an all-woman team. The Bowling Moms would have kicked _every_ team’s ass this season. The Beauty Queens would have done the same. The Mormon sisters could have (probably) done the same. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-race-12-05/563094/48 "2010-12-07T19:02:36Z")
I _am_ notably suspicious and distrustful of the Amazing Producers though. You folks nailed me on that one. I don’t know how you figured it out though. I thought I was being subtle and hiding my suspicions rather well 😉 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-race-12-05/563094/49 "2010-12-07T19:04:00Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Changing tasks to make it easier for your preferred team to win (like not having a grueling physical task in the last leg–when there’s ALWAYS a grueling physical task in the last leg) An argument can be made that having a grueling physical task meant the whole race was skewed in favor of men and now they are trying to unskew it. Men are physically stronger than women, in general. If you need your reality TV to emphasize that, then I suppose this is a terrible change. If you want people to feel like anyone can win if they work hard enough, then it’s not a terrible change. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-race-12-05/563094/50 "2010-12-07T19:11:15Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Changing tasks to make it easier for your preferred team to win (like not having a grueling physical task in the last leg–when there’s ALWAYS a grueling physical task in the last leg)or manipulating real-world stuff (as they did when they called a plane back that had actually departed from the runway to allow an all-black team to get into the final two)\*. > > \*and for the thin-skinned out there, of course a strong black team can win. Several have–without the producers cheating on their behalf. Same with an all-woman team. The Bowling Moms would have kicked _every_ team’s ass this season. The Beauty Queens would have done the same. The Mormon sisters could have (probably) done the same. They didn’t call the plane back because they wanted an all-black team (Uchenna & Joyce). They called it back because it was on its way to the final city of the race, Miami, and only a single team (Rob & Amber) was aboard, with a 4 hour wait before the next plane. There would have been no suspense whatsoever in the final episode if R&A had a 4 hour lead for a few “find this location” tasks. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-race-12-05/563094/51 "2010-12-08T09:38:01Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > An argument can be made that having a grueling physical task meant the whole race was skewed in favor of men and now they are trying to unskew it. Men are physically stronger than women, in general. If you need your reality TV to emphasize that, then I suppose this is a terrible change. If you want people to feel like anyone can win if they work hard enough, then it’s not a terrible change. I could be wrong, but I think **Fenris** is saying that the grueling physical tasks never did skew the race in favor of men. The producers are wrong in their thinking of what women can do, and so the way they are nerfing the challenges to favor women is sexist. Women aren’t at a disadvantage in a grueling physical challenge, at least not in the context of TAR. It’s _strength_ challenges that skew against women and should be eliminated. Example: A few seasons ago, there was a minor side-thing that wasn’t even a challenge unto itself, just a “do this on the way to the next road block” kind of thing. It was a strength test like you see in a circus, where you take a hammer and try to smack the thing hard enough to ring the bell. IIRC, there was an all-girl team that simply could not do it and may have even quit the race right there and then, after hours of not coming close. (I remember it being in a cold climate with snow on the ground, right outside some kind of lodge. In Sweden, maybe?) That’s what the producers need to eliminate to let all-women teams have a fighting chance. There is no reason to nerf grueling physical tasks, as women are just as capable as men. That they appear to be doing that is offensive both in that it nerfs the race and in that it’s sexist. I could be misinterpreting Fenris’ complaint, and if so, no biggee. This is what my complaint is. (Along with the skewed casting.) The simplest and fairest solution, of course, is to do what real sports have done for ages: enforce gender balance. For TAR, just don’t allow same-sex teams. Problem solved. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-race-12-05/563094/52 "2010-12-08T13:01:36Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Example: A few seasons ago, there was a minor side-thing that wasn’t even a challenge unto itself, just a “do this on the way to the next road block” kind of thing. It was a strength test like you see in a circus, where you take a hammer and try to smack the thing hard enough to ring the bell. IIRC, there was an all-girl team that simply could not do it and may have even quit the race right there and then, after hours of not coming close. (I remember it being in a cold climate with snow on the ground, right outside some kind of lodge. In Sweden, maybe?) That was the Poker Players from TAR15. And it was a challenge, it was actually a Detour where the Poker Players had the choice between ringing the bell or playing three holes of something called Farmer’s Golf. They couldn’t do either and switched back and forth between the two spots several times, which involved a swim across a freezing river. The task only became gruelling because they made it so. If they had went to the hammer bell first, they probably would have been able to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-race-12-05/563094/53 "2010-12-08T15:34:08Z")
Plus, the trick of the hammer-bell task is not strength, it’s physics. You need to swing the hammer in as large an arc as possible to generate the force to ring the bell. If you only lift the hammer a little over your head, you’ll never be able to hit the target hard enough. The Poker women just didn’t know how to do it right (not that there was any reason they should have known). ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-race-12-05/563094/54 "2010-12-08T17:15:41Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > The Poker women just didn’t know how to do it right (not that there was any reason they should have known). At the start of the Race, didn’t they tell the other contestents that they were child psychologists? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-race-12-05/563094/55 "2010-12-08T17:30:04Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Plus, the trick of the hammer-bell task is not strength, it’s physics. You need to swing the hammer in as large an arc as possible to generate the force to ring the bell. If you only lift the hammer a little over your head, you’ll never be able to hit the target hard enough. The Poker women just didn’t know how to do it right (not that there was any reason they should have known). True :nodding: But IIRC they were also exhausted from running from that task to the golf and back again. Even if they realized the physics behind it, I’m pretty sure they still wouldn’t have had the strength to do it. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-race-12-05/563094/56 "2010-12-08T18:09:34Z")
According to [this recap](http://www.suite101.com/content/amazing-race-15-episode-7-recap-a164967), they started with the carnival bell task, and switched after they couldn’t ring the bell. Makes sense - the main part of the task was learning a dance and eating some herring, which is a lot less physical than golf. ---
**Author:** ![candide](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/46a35a/32.png) [@candide](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/candide)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-race-12-05/563094/57 "2010-12-08T23:12:38Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > The deck did seem suspiciously stacked to me. The challenges also seemed watered down to me, even though I’ve only seen the last few seasons. Nothing approached the giant hay bales in the field, for example, or the cheese blocks you had to carry up the hill, or the mud pit volleyball thing. I agree that the physical tasks seemed oddly unchallenging this season. But I also suspect that the Amazing Producers, saddled with a particularly dumb group of teams, throttled back on the intellectual challenges, too. The first team was eliminated through an inability to follow a map in England – God forbid that they should stop and ask directions. Then no team other than the Princeton Glee boys were able to find the billboard-sized key in the challenge in Africa that led to the oddly fulfilling sight of teams circling children with chalk. This combined with the fact that an oddly large number of times teams forgot to read the clue and multiple teams that could not drive a stick, suggests a huge lack of preparation by the teams that made it onto the show. There were no intellectual challenges that remotely approached the Franz challenge that eliminated the Globetrotters or the gold calculation challenge to name but two. The Tae Kwan Do challenge this past week might have been a far more difficult needle-in-the-haystack type affair, but the producers seem to have provided stacks of headbands at the start. Additionally, by increasing the number of soldiers in the formation with the correct headband the task is made easier. Only Brooke and Claire appeared to have to select multiple headbands. I don’t know whether dumbing down the intellectual challenges works to the benefit of all-male or all-female teams. I suspect it only helps the nitwits. And sadly, having more stupid teams unfortunately makes the show less interesting to me and that’s sad. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-race-12-05/563094/58 "2010-12-09T14:27:48Z")
> [@candide](#): > > The first team was eliminated through an inability to follow a map in England – God forbid that they should stop and ask directions. Then no team other than the Princeton Glee boys were able to find the billboard-sized key in the challenge in Africa that led to the oddly fulfilling sight of teams circling children with chalk. This combined with the fact that an oddly large number of times teams forgot to read the clue and multiple teams that could not drive a stick, suggests a huge lack of preparation by the teams that made it onto the show. Huge lack of preparation indeed. Has there ever been a Race, any season any country any production line, that did not require the teams even once to drive a manual-transmission car? That’s on the TAR list of required skills. Along with map-reading, getting clear directions regardless of language barriers, and eating well during every Pit Stop so you don’t starve when the camera crew insists on an hour-long lunch during a hotly contested leg with no bunching points. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-race-12-05/563094/59 "2010-12-09T17:25:17Z")
> [@candide](#): > > There were no intellectual challenges that remotely approached the Franz challenge that eliminated the Globetrotters or the gold calculation challenge to name but two. The Tae Kwan Do challenge this past week might have been a far more difficult needle-in-the-haystack type affair, but the producers seem to have provided stacks of headbands at the start. Additionally, by increasing the number of soldiers in the formation with the correct headband the task is made easier. Only Brooke and Claire appeared to have to select multiple headbands. The TKD challenge was very hard, IMO. When they explained the challenge, they first showed two soldiers with incorrect matches. I had to pause the DVR, go in slow motion, back up again, and look for like a solid minute before I could see what was different about the soldier’s headband and the player’s. For both of the soldiers. The symbols were so similar I decided (having not watched the challenge play out yet) that I’d end up just offering it to every soldier in order. When the challenge started and a wrong guess meant the soldier kept your headband and you had to run up to get another, I figured that I personally would never solve it in a million years. But yes, I do agree that the intellectual challenges are watered down as well. Just because I am terrible at symbol matching doesn’t mean that symbol matching is particularly difficult. That gold currency exchange required far more intelligence, IMO, even with a calculator. Maybe the producers think women are as stupid as they think they are weak? EDIT: Thanks everyone for the details on the strength test thing with the poker players. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazing-race-12-05/563094.md?page=2)