# Amazon.com removes queer and trans books from bestseller lists **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853 "2009-04-12T16:23:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853/81 "2009-04-13T21:56:17Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I think it’s sad that some homosexuals have so little worth to their lives outside of their sexuality that they spend all their time waiting to be uber-offended over every little thing. Can you really not see why people think this is an issue? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853/82 "2009-04-13T21:56:48Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I think it’s sad that some homosexuals have so little worth to their lives outside of their sexuality that they spend all their time waiting to be uber-offended over every little thing. And yet here you are, having nothing better to do than tell them you’re here listening. Asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Einmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Einmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Einmon)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853/83 "2009-04-13T22:04:25Z")
IMHO the problem here is not the de-ranking of LGBT books, the problem is the de-ranking per se. Why should Amazon determine what content is suitable for people to see? That’s not for Amazon to decide at all. ITA that it should be opt-in for people who want adult screening. With the issue at hand from my experience with large companies I find it hard to ascribe nefarious intent. I think what probably happened was that somebody decided adult content had to be de-ranked (Think of the children!). Then somewhere lower on the food chain some schmuck thought “Hey, I think they call them gay books because of all the gay sex in them. I’ll have to work a lot less if I set the system to automatically de-rank them” Or maybe set the system so that books with complaints automatically were being de-ranked. Which doesn’t make the whole thing OK nor will be less of a PR desaster for Amazon, especially with the “glitch” explanation having been issued. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853/84 "2009-04-13T22:07:37Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I think it’s sad that some homosexuals have so little worth to their lives outside of their sexuality that they spend all their time waiting to be uber-offended over every little thing. I don’t know about **matt\_mcl** , but I wasn’t really offended by anything until I read this post of yours. I don’t know if you’re straight or not, but either way, you were a jerk to say it. My sexuality is a part of my identity — not the biggest one, and certainly not the only one. In my mind, it has more to do with the person I love than the kind of sex we have. To be told, explicitly or implicitly, that any part of my identity is somehow inappropriate for public consumption or “adult” (implied: to be kept hidden from children), well — that’s offensive. To be told, explicitly or implicitly, that my identity should be hidden by default because it might bother someone, well — that’s offensive. There’s no “über” about the offense, but it’s more than recreational outrage, I assure you. It probably wouldn’t bother me if it were a one-off happening from a benign but clueless retailer, but it’s part of a larger pattern of discrimination that affects me directly. Not often, because of where I live and what I do, but often enough. What should we do, instead? As **matt\_mcl** said, even if Amazon is not the instigator, they aren’t exactly running for Gay-Friendly Retailer of the Year. ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853/85 "2009-04-13T22:09:21Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I think it’s sad that some homosexuals have so little worth to their lives outside of their sexuality that they spend all their time waiting to be uber-offended over every little thing. > [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > And yet here you are, having nothing better to do than tell them you’re here listening… Is there a Maxim or a Law or anything that names this phenomenon yet? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853/86 "2009-04-13T22:13:06Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I think it’s sad that some homosexuals have so little worth to their lives outside of their sexuality that they spend all their time waiting to be uber-offended over every little thing. Yes, because gay people were totally sitting around just waiting for [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) to delist these books. And then they got excited and came in their pants a little when the Gay Signal came out that there was an Important Issue to protest about! ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853/87 "2009-04-13T22:13:15Z")
> [@Einmon](#): > > Why should Amazon determine what content is suitable for people to see? That’s not for Amazon to decide at all. It’s Amazon’s website, they most certainly should determine what content they wish to display. All the websites I’ve worked on for major media retailers have some rules about which titles get displayed based on taxonomy or tags. It looks like someone got overeager about how they applied the rules but this is precisely in line with common practices. ---
**Author:** ![JR\_Brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JR\_Brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JR_Brown)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853/88 "2009-04-13T22:25:28Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > It’s Amazon’s website, they most certainly should determine what content they wish to display. All the websites I’ve worked on for major media retailers have some rules about which titles get displayed based on taxonomy or tags. It looks like someone got overeager about how they applied the rules but this is precisely in line with common practices. But this isn’t about how Amazon uses taxonomy or tags; Amazon’s rankings affect how a book is displayed in search regardless of its relevance. By removing the rankings they’re making the books hard to find _even if you know exactly what you want and search for it by author and title_. ---
**Author:** ![JR\_Brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JR\_Brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JR_Brown)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853/89 "2009-04-13T22:27:40Z")
Update:[Amazon responds](http://blog.seattlepi.com/amazon/archives/166329.asp?from=blog_last3) > [@Amazon spokesperson Drew Herdener](#): > > This is an embarrassing and ham-fisted cataloging error for a company that prides itself on offering complete selection. > > It has been misreported that the issue was limited to Gay & Lesbian themed titles – in fact, it impacted 57,310 books in a number of broad categories such as Health, Mind & Body, Reproductive & Sexual Medicine, and Erotica. This problem impacted books not just in the United States but globally. It affected not just sales rank but also had the effect of removing the books from Amazon’s main product search. > > Many books have now been fixed and we’re in the process of fixing the remainder as quickly as possible, and we intend to implement new measures to make this kind of accident less likely to occur in the future. They’re still not saying anything about what caused it all… ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853/90 "2009-04-13T22:30:12Z")
> [@JR\_Brown](#): > > Update:[Amazon responds](http://blog.seattlepi.com/amazon/archives/166329.asp?from=blog_last3)They’re still not saying anything about what caused it all… I’d give 'em time to patch the security hole before telling the hackers what the vulnerability was, exactly. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853/91 "2009-04-13T22:49:48Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > And then they got excited and came in their pants a little when the Gay Signal came out that there was an Important Issue to protest about! Jeez, I miss out on all the fun just because I’m straight. I wonder if we’ll ever get the whole story on this…what, exactly, were they trying to do? Was this really supposed to be some kind of policy, or was it just some guy in France aimlessly pounding on a keyboard? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853/92 "2009-04-13T23:50:26Z")
… It sounds to me like little Bobby Tables went shopping. > **[Exploits of a Mom](https://xkcd.com/327/)** > > Her daughter is named Help I'm trapped in a driver's license factory. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853/93 "2009-04-13T23:55:31Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I think it’s sad that some homosexuals have so little worth to their lives outside of their sexuality that they spend all their time waiting to be uber-offended over every little thing. That’s because you’re a stupid cunt. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853/94 "2009-04-14T00:09:45Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Uh, I kind of doubt that since he was pointing out that his post was full of hyperbole? As was the response. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Krebbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5fc32e/32.png) [@Mr.Krebbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Krebbs)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853/95 "2009-04-14T00:12:56Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Just checked, and sure enough [Oranges are not the Only Fruit](http://www.amazon.com/Oranges-Are-Not-Only-Fruit/dp/0802135161/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239553767&sr=1-1) lacks a rank, wherea a book surely more squiggy, [Perdido Street Station](http://www.amazon.com/Perdido-Street-Station-China-Mieville/dp/0345459407/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239553858&sr=8-1), has one (this was chosen at random). > > Yeesh. Not that I disagree with the intent of your post, but having read _Perdido Street Station_, I can tell you that it is a bizarre read but not a particularly titillating one as far as sci-fi/fantasy goes (if “titillating” is what you mean by “squiggy”). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853/96 "2009-04-14T00:21:39Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I think it’s sad that some homosexuals have so little worth to their lives outside of their sexuality that they spend all their time waiting to be uber-offended over every little thing. I think it’s sad that people as stupid as you are allowed to breed. Seriously… you’re usually quite clever. Did somebody hijack your keyboard, or did you just decide to let your inner douchebag run things today? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853/97 "2009-04-14T00:23:04Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Yes, because gay people were totally sitting around just waiting for [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) to delist these books. And then they got excited and came in their pants a little when the Gay Signal came out that there was an Important Issue to protest about! That’s exactly what happened, as are most forms of outrage that originate from the blogosphere. It’s no different than stupid Christians and conservatives who are always looking for reasons to be offended (be it by things like “Happy Holidays” or by spurious claims that Obama is kowtowing to Muslim royalty.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853/98 "2009-04-14T00:28:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Seriously… you’re usually quite clever. Did somebody hijack your keyboard, or did you just decide to let your inner douchebag run things today? You must have him confused with a different poster. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853/99 "2009-04-14T00:28:29Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I think it’s sad that some homosexuals have so little worth to their lives outside of their sexuality that they spend all their time waiting to be uber-offended over every little thing. I think it’s sad that you’re a raging asshole who has no sense of empathy. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853/100 "2009-04-14T00:35:27Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > That’s exactly what happened, as are most forms of outrage that originate from the blogosphere. I don’t suppose you have any evidence for any of that, and are just pulling your arguments out of your ass, as usual? Note: ‘everybody knows’ is not a cite. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-com-removes-queer-and-trans-books-from-bestseller-lists/492853.md?page=6)