# Amazon Lord of the Rings series; The Rings of Power **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth, amazon-prime, tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [March 3, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497 "2019-03-03T20:01:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/302 "2022-09-04T15:40:50Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The character from the trailers who is very obviously indicated to be Annatar - you know,the [Malfoy-looking](https://youtu.be/uYnQDsaxHZU?t=54) [one](https://youtu.be/x8UAUAuKNcU?t=46) - looks nothing like Sky Guy, so either he’s going to change his appearance, or it’s not him. You’re right, the faces are very different. On IMDB there is a credit for the Stranger, but no credit for Annatar. There are, however, three actor names without character names, so they probably didn’t want to give it away (yet). However, based just on his IMDB portrait, and that glimpse of (presumed) Annatar in the trailer, I think it will be Joseph Mawle. And according to his IMDB filmography, we meet him in episode 3. And the actor playing the Stranger (Daniel Weyman) appears to be playing that character in all 8 episodes. Which reminds me of something that has bothered me somewhat about that glimpse in the trailer, which I too thought right away must have been Sauron/Annatar. During this period he was still able to make himself fair of face, or at least pleasant looking. But the face in the trailer fairly screams “watch out for me, I’m dangerous and bad.” Unfortunate and unnecessary telegraphing of the plot? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/303 "2022-09-04T16:41:19Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > There are, however, three actor names without character names, so they probably didn’t want to give it away (yet). However, based just on his IMDB portrait, and that glimpse of (presumed) Annatar in the trailer, I think it will be Joseph Mawle. AFAIK, the very blonde young man in the trailer is Anson Boon, not Mawle. > [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > “watch out for me, I’m dangerous and bad.” That’s our genre-savvy talking, I suspect. He is conventionally good-looking, for all that. As for The Stranger - lots of internet speculation as to the meaning of “Mana” and “Úrë". If it’s plain _mana_, then it’s a question = “What is fire/heat/the sun?” . But if it’s _mána_, then it’s more like “Blessed Fire”. I tend to think the latter, as it has echoes of “I am a servant of the Secret Fire”. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > the beardless women shouldn’t be a huge problem, it is just that it is the expectation very many of us had. Disa _had_ a beard. They weren’t sideburns, because they were just along her cheeks, not connected to her head-hair. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Too many scenes of Galadriel lost at sea. The cynic in me suspects that clingy sheer fabric had a lot to do with the amount of screentime the raft scenes got. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/304 "2022-09-04T17:03:35Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The cynic in me suspects that clingy sheer fabric had a lot to do with the amount of screentime the raft scenes got. Maybe. Speaking as a straight woman, i found that whole vignette, from Galadrial agreeing to go to the west, to the dumb-ass ship where everyone stood at attention, to her decision to jump off, despite apparently not having the stamina to swim back home (i mean, she asked for help from a bunch of ship wrecks clinging to flotsam) all seemed like it detracted from the show. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/305 "2022-09-04T17:14:29Z")
I would have preferred if she’d just not gotten on the ship, myself, but the whole thing didn’t bother me too much, depends on what happens from there with this rescue ship. Oooh, here’s a thought, speaking of ships - what if The Stranger was Elrond’s dad? Just to fuck with all the purists, straight-up have him be Eärendil, fallen to Earth and trying to get back to Vingilótë. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/306 "2022-09-04T17:39:10Z")
That would be kind of cool if the Stranger was either Eärendil or one of the other sailors of _Vingilótë_. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/307 "2022-09-04T17:41:14Z")
Eärendil would be pretty cool. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/308 "2022-09-04T17:53:13Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Oooh, here’s a thought, speaking of ships - what if The Stranger was Elrond’s dad? But he’s not an elf, or even half-elf. Nori even talks about how he doesn’t seem elf or man. I suppose he _could_ be a wizard. While the 5 Istari we know of are thousands of years away from arriving in Middle-Earth, it’s likely they weren’t the first. We know Sauron pretended to be a wizard sent by the Valar in his Annatar guise. It seems probable that he chose that as his story because they’ve done it before. After all, the reason the Valar sent them in the 3rd Age was because Sauron was returning to power again. So what’s happening now at this time period in the 2nd Age? Sauron is returning to power again. (He has been building armies of orcs in secret, and we are just now starting to see them in the show.) If this was a new wizard that isn’t in any of the stories, I wouldn’t be too mad. It’s not any sort of contradiction to canon as far as I know. Just an addition to it. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/309 "2022-09-04T18:00:57Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > We know Sauron pretended to be a wizard sent by the Valar in his Annatar guise. It seems probable that he chose that as his story because they’ve done it before. **This is not correct.** He did not pretend to be a wizard sent by the Valar. Annatar literally means Lord of Gifts and he offered great knowledge to the Ring Smiths of craft. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/310 "2022-09-04T18:03:18Z")
The canonical timing of the arrival of the blue wizards is ambiguous. Could be them. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/311 "2022-09-04T18:05:17Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > But he’s not an elf, or even half-elf. Nori even talks about how he doesn’t seem elf or man. I wasn’t being serious about it being Eärendil. I was just picturing the uber-purists’ heads exploding But he definitely _looks_ like a human man, so no idea what Nori is basing that perception on, other than the lack of antlers on his back (what the _fuck_ was up with those dudes, BTW?). > [@puzzlegal](#): > > The canonical timing of the arrival of the blue wizards is ambiguous. Could be them. They would have arrived together, though, I think. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/312 "2022-09-04T18:06:32Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > They would have arrived together, though, I think. That is accurate, but as no one is known to have arrived by meteor express, who knows. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/313 "2022-09-04T18:10:49Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > **This is not correct.** He did not pretend to be a wizard sent by the Valar. Are you sure? > **[The Encyclopedia of Arda - Annatar](https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/a/annatar.php)** > > At the end of the First Age, the Valar conquered Morgoth and took him back across the Sea, ultimately to eject him from the world altogether. Morgoth's... > [Sauron’s](https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/s/sauron.html) scheme to entrap the [Elves](https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/e/elves.html) was one of subtle persuasion. **He took on the angelic appearance of an emissary of the [Valar](https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/v/valar.html) and gave himself new names.** Among these were _[Artano](https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/a/artano.html)_ the high smith and _[Aulendil](https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/a/aulendil.html)_ the servant of [Aulë](https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/a/aule.html), but the best known of these guises was _Annatar_ , the [Lord of Gifts](https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/l/lordofgifts.html). In this form he went to the [Elves](https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/e/elves.html) and offered them his aid in their works, but even as Annatar most of the leaders of the [Elves](https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/e/elves.html) were suspicious of him. He may not have used the term “wizard” but “Maia with magic powers sent by the Valar” is basically the definition of a Tolkien wizard. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/314 "2022-09-04T18:20:25Z")
Some interesting info is here, which might make it more plausible for this “stranger” to be a wizard. > **[Blue Wizards](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Blue_Wizards)** > > "Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir up rebellion... and after his first fall to search out his hiding and to cause dissension and disarray among the dark East...... > In [J.R.R. Tolkien](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/J.R.R._Tolkien)’s _[Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Of_the_Rings_of_Power_and_the_Third_Age)_ it is told that aside from [Saruman](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Saruman), [Gandalf](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Gandalf), and [Radagast](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Radagast), there were “others of the Istari who went into the east of Middle-earth, and do not come into these tales.” That certainly opens up the possibility that there were more wizards. > The time that the Blue Wizards arrived in Middle-earth is uncertain. In _[Unfinished Tales](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Unfinished_Tales)_ , Tolkien wrote that the five Istari came to Middle-earth together in [TA 1000](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/TA_1000). However, in _[The Peoples of Middle-earth](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/The_Peoples_of_Middle-earth)_ , they are said to have arrived in the [Second Age](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Second_Age), around the year [SA 1600](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/SA_1600), the time of the forging of the [One Ring](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/One_Ring).[[3]](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Blue_Wizards#cite_note-Unfinished22-3) Their mission was directed at weakening [Sauron](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Sauron)’s forces in the eastern and southern parts of [Middle-earth](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Middle-earth), whereas the other Istari were focused on the west. So I guess there is some ambiguity and perhaps a contradiction, though you could resolve that contradiction by saying that they may have arrived separately in the Second Age, and didn’t start working together until the Third Age. Anyway, there seems to be a lot of wiggle room for this to be a wizard. And I suppose it could even be Gandalf or one of the other known wizards, going by what was written in _The Peoples of Middle Earth_. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/315 "2022-09-04T18:29:59Z")
So yes, I’m sure he did not pretend to be a Wizard. Giving the impression he was from the Valar though is quite reasonable. Gandalf should be locked in stone for 1000 Third Age, Radagast & Saruman in the Third age and probably on the same boat is most likely by far. The Blue Wizards and Glorfindel as a precursor to the Wizards however could arrive in the second age. Glorfindel most likely about 1600 Second Age as I recall. None of this means the showrunners need to follow what the Good Professor did write. It could easily be any of the Wizards or an early seeming for Sauron/Annatar. It could also be a wholly new character. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/316 "2022-09-04T19:42:25Z")
I read somewhere that the show got the blessing of the Tolkien estate to dramatically compress the timeline of the second age, so as to allow them to use the same human (etc.) characters throughout. So I wouldn’t get to excited about exactly when in the second age someone might have shown up. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/317 "2022-09-04T20:05:17Z")
Or Entwives? The Stranger can not be Glorfindel. The Blue wizards are a maybe, but they were a solid pair. Boy the Fanboyz _hate_ this show. It is gorgeous to me, but slow in parts. To be honest, I suspected that Galadrial would be refused entrance due to unfinished business, then sent back to Cirdan (Kirdan, note). The bit about swimming back, etc is crazy, bad and wasting time. The Harfoots are solid. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/318 "2022-09-04T20:28:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Boy the Fanboyz _hate_ this show. It is gorgeous to me, but slow in parts. Funny thing is, I could easily be one of those but I’m enjoying it and not worrying that it is not word for word what Tolkien wrote. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/319 "2022-09-04T20:33:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Or Entwives? It’s the Ents who hung with huorns in forests, the Entwives liked ordered gardens and smaller plants. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/320 "2022-09-04T20:35:29Z")
It looked like a tall Ent was holding hands or something with a small, different looking one. And the Entwives are still around. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/321 "2022-09-04T20:39:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It looked like a tall Ent was holding hands or something with a small, different looking one. The different-looking one didn’t have legs, AFAICT. > [@DrDeth](#): > > And the Entwives are still around. Sure, in their gardens in what would become the Brown Lands - by this time, the split between the two groups as to where to stay has already happened. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497.md?page=17)