# Amazon Lord of the Rings series; The Rings of Power **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth, amazon-prime, tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [March 3, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497 "2019-03-03T20:01:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/843 "2022-09-25T12:25:58Z")
I could take or leave the whole mithril thing if it weren’t so haphazardly plotted—so Gil-Galad discovers that all elfdom is doomed in like half a year (which in elven terms must be about next Tuesday) because his tree is sick, and then just… Does what? While conveniently, the dwarves just at that very point in time happen to dig up a mystery metal nobody even knew existed, which Gil-Galad somehow learns about, but not really, because then, he apparently concocts some hare-brained scheme to get Elrond to have the idea of asking the dwarves for help, then go there and accidentally discover the mithril, which Gil-Galad already pretty much knows about anyway… And then what? ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/844 "2022-09-25T12:36:05Z")
1. Profit! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/845 "2022-09-25T12:39:35Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > all elfdom is doomed in like half a year (which in elven terms must be about next Tuesday) I mean, as Durin put it, it usually takes them weeks just to decide to take a shit. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/846 "2022-09-25T13:29:06Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I could take or leave the whole mithril thing if it weren’t so haphazardly plotted—so Gil-Galad discovers that all elfdom is doomed in like half a year (which in elven terms must be about next Tuesday) because his tree is sick, and then just… Does what? While conveniently, the dwarves just at that very point in time happen to dig up a mystery metal nobody even knew existed, which Gil-Galad somehow learns about, but not really, because then, he apparently concocts some hare-brained scheme to get Elrond to have the idea of asking the dwarves for help, then go there and accidentally discover the mithril, which Gil-Galad already pretty much knows about anyway… And then what? Even if it were better plotted, that feels like a violation of canon that goes too far. Gandalf showing up a few centuries too soon, or a weird pre-ring magic artifact seem fine, in a fan-fiction way. But “Elves will all fade away if they aren’t covered in mithril”? Seriously? How did we have so many elves in the third age? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/847 "2022-09-25T14:03:51Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Are you saying you think it’s not true, in the story world, and that’s why it’s okay? I’m saying to me it doesn’t matter to me if it’s true or not. I don’t care, I like the story of it. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Why does gil galad even know about the mithril? We’re talking about a setting where prophesy is a real phenomenon. Maybe he dreamt it. Maybe a passing Maia told him. It doesn’t really matter to me, to be clear. I don’t require that everything be explained or even make perfect sense. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Elves will all fade away if they aren’t covered in mithril That wasn’t what I understood him to mean. I think that what’s intended is that the power in mithril be channeled into the Elven rings, which are intended to preserve and succor things. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/848 "2022-09-25T14:06:51Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Galadriel has already _had_ plenty of meaningful experiences. That characterizing this as “relative youth” for her is mistaken. A quibble that seems hardly worth so much effort then. In any case by the numbers given she is roughly 2/3s older by LOTR. I’d still call this relatively young. I do not think that “relative youth” requires a lack of meaningful experiences to that point. She is, relatively to when we meet her in LOTR, young, working through recent severe traumatic experiences. I remain unsurprised that thousands of years later she has matured and grown. Question. How are elf years supposed to work? We began the show seeing her as a child, looking maybe human ten … so they have a childhood having been begotten of other elves. How long does take them mature into adult forms? Any lore on that? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/849 "2022-09-25T14:13:30Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > A quibble that seems hardly worth so much effort then …he says before continuing to dispute it… I’m just going to drop the whole thing now. > [@DSeid](#): > > Question. How are elf years supposed to work? Elves come of age around 50, and then stop ageing\*. They’re considered adult at 100. More info, with cites, [is here](https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Elven_life_cycle) \* or rather, stop natural ageing. There’s spiritual ageing, see Cirdan. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/850 "2022-09-25T14:51:29Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Elves come of age around 50, and then stop ageing\*. They’re considered adult at 100. More info, with cites, [is here](https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Elven_life_cycle) Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/851 "2022-09-25T16:34:36Z")
I thinkl at this point the only way to salvage the mithril mess is if Gil-Galad is in fact Sauron in disguise, attempting to provoke the elves to provoke the dwarves into digging to deep and too greedily. So he kills some plants in the woods, creates this whole horrible story and get’s the the dwarves to awaken the Bane of Durin. (another thing that bothers me is that relationship between trees and elves, yes I know about Tolkien and trees, but that kind of “symbiotic” elf/tree or elf/woods relationship seems more D&D than Tolkien to me, specially when we are talking about Noldor elves, not Sylvan (Legolas people) or even run of the mill Sindarin elves.) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/852 "2022-09-25T16:36:30Z")
I’m not excusing it as I think they’re executing it terribly, but I’m sure they’re going with the inspiration of the White Tree being tied to the Kings of Númenor and later Gondor. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/853 "2022-09-25T16:39:43Z")
Yes but the White tree is a lone specific tree, given to the Edain by the Elves (or the Valar, or both), it makes more sense. I get the feeling that the writers are unable to separate Tolkien Elves, from things that the Elf concept acquired later like a strong relationship with nature for example, things that are somewhat valid perhaps for _some_ of Tolkien elves but certainly not for Noldor, as Legolas said, the trees of Eregion did not remember the Noldor, only the rocks did. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/854 "2022-09-25T16:41:57Z")
All valid except, the reasons the trees of Eregion didn’t remember were they were not old enough. The trees would have had to have been over 3000 years old. This was not Fangorn or The Old Forest. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/855 "2022-09-25T16:46:18Z")
That’s not what I remember, I’ll have to reread that part but I seem to remember Legolas making a specific distinction between his people and the Noldor from Eregion, I think if Sylvan elves had inhabited the area it would have been the trees and not the rocks the ones who remembered them. (It looks like I’ll have to reread LOTR again this year 😄 ) ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/856 "2022-09-25T16:55:47Z")
Concretely Legolas says: “The Elves of this land were of a race strange to us of the silvan folk, and the trees and the grass do not now remember them: Only I hear the stones lament them” That seems to me to mean that they were not “silvan” folk, meaning that they did not have such a strong bond to trees. however I looked at my spanish translation (the one I always read, because it is the one I read when I was 15 and got hooked on Tolkien) and it says “Los elfos de esta tierra no eran gente de los bosques como nosotros” (literally : “The elves of this land were not people of the woods like us”) instead of “Strange to us of the silvan folk”, a difference that surely influenced my thinking. But if you cannot trust Tolkien in the original spanish, in what language can you trust him?, Sindarin? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/857 "2022-09-25T16:58:31Z")
Also this: > [@](#): > > Gandalf: 'There is a wholesome air about Hollin. Much evil must befall a country before it wholly forgets the Elves, if once they dwelt there.’ > > ‘That is true,’ said Legolas. ‘But the Elves of this land were of a race strange to us of the silvan folk, and the trees and the grass do not now remember them. Only I hear the stones lament them: deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us; but they are gone. They are gone. They sought the Havens long ago.’ ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/858 "2022-09-25T16:58:39Z")
I have always thought that all the elves had a special relationship with trees, not just the Silvan elves, fwiw. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/859 "2022-09-25T17:02:15Z")
I think they love trees, I don’t think the Noldor for example would hack trees just for the hell of it, and they revered the Trees of Valinor, but the real love of the Noldor is knowledge and craft, if they needed to fell a tree to build something they would gladly do it. They are more of Aüle than of Yavanna. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/860 "2022-09-25T17:51:05Z")
Oh, I’m sure the noldar would cut down trees. But i think they would do it for a purpose, and thank the tree, and take note of killing it. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/861 "2022-09-25T17:57:47Z")
Who were the elves Legolas was talking about there? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/862 "2022-09-25T18:01:00Z")
Hollin is another name for Eregion, so apparently the elves we’re watching on the show right now. > **[The Encyclopedia of Arda - Elves of Eregion](https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/e/elvesoferegion.html)** > > After the end of the First Age, most of the Noldor who remained in Middle-earth dwelt in Lindon under the rule of Gil-galad their High King. After some... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497.md?page=44)