# Amazon Lord of the Rings series; The Rings of Power **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth, amazon-prime, tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [March 3, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497 "2019-03-03T20:01:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/903 "2022-10-01T13:41:05Z")
Sauron was a Maia of the Vala Aulë. (Effectively the smith god). . Sauron was indeed closely associated with Fire. Gandalf being a servant of the secret fire is not the same as being a fire Maia. He carried the **[Narya](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Narya)**; Elven Ring of Fire. This was given to him by Cirdan. > The **Secret Fire** or " **Flame of Anor**" (probably aliases of the ancient **Flame Imperishable** ) refers to a mysterious heavenly power in [Eä](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/E%C3%A4) and [Arda](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Arda). Gandalf was Olórin and a Maia of Manwë and Varda but also [Irmo](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Irmo), and [Nienna](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Nienna). He spent much time in Lorien’s Gardens. He was associated with Fire but also Light. And not in a Smith way but more like Varda. Olórin was considered the wisest of the Maiar. Saruman was also a Maia of Aulë. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/904 "2022-10-01T14:39:35Z")
Thanks! Interesting that Adar says he killed Sauron. Maybe he hit Sauron with a cheap shot and Sauron felt he had to regroup so he’s recovering as Annatar somewhere? Adar’s a clever bastard. I hope this isn’t the end of him. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/905 "2022-10-01T15:46:53Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Interesting that Adar says he killed Sauron. Maybe he hit Sauron with a cheap shot and Sauron felt he had to regroup so he’s recovering as Annatar somewhere? So, he isn’t the one that took Sauron out in the 1st age? Was that a thing? I get that this is the second age and will effectively end with Isildur chopping off Sauron’s finger and…well, not destroying the ring. Did Sauron also lose in the 1st age, or was that only Morgoth? And if only Morgoth, why hasn’t Sauron been attacking the past millenia(?)? ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/906 "2022-10-01T15:53:28Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Did Sauron also lose in the 1st age, or was that only Morgoth? And if only Morgoth, why hasn’t Sauron been attacking the past millenia(?)? My scanty lore is that Morgoth was beaten and Sauron kind of made a strategic retreat to try his own luck later. He’s been planning and building from the remnants of Morgoth’s army and resources. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/907 "2022-10-01T15:54:26Z")
Sauron fought for Morgoth but up until Lúthien beat him. When Morgoth was defeated and led off in chains, Sauron went repentant to the leader of the Host of the West; [Eönwë](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/E%C3%B6nw%C3%AB); and plead for forgiveness. But he was unwilling to return to Valinor for judgement and fled and hid. He remained hidden for about 1000 years and started building fortress Mordor and organizing Orcs and Trolls. He also swayed Easterlings {Men} and Southrons {Men} to his cause with promises of power, riches and glory. Then around 1500 SA he in secret became Annatar to try and fool the Elves. * * * * * * The show has almost everything wrong, so I am now watching this as someone else’s second age campaign using names for Tolkien but not a lot else. * * * * * * More on Sauron from the end of the Silmarillion: Once Morgoth was defeated: > Sauron put on his fair hue again and did obeisance to Eönwë the herald of Manwë, and abjured all his evil deeds. And some hold that this was not at first falsely done, but that Sauron in truth repented, if only out of fear, being dismayed by the fall of Morgoth and the great wrath of the Lords of the West. But it was not within the power of Eönwë to pardon those of his own order, and he commanded Sauron to return to Aman and there receive the judgement of Manwë. Then Sauron was ashamed, and he was unwilling to return in humiliation and to receive from the Valar a sentence, it might be, of long servitude in proof of his good faith; for under Morgoth his power had been great. Therefore when Eönwë departed he hid himself in Middle-earth; and he fell back into evil, for the bonds that Morgoth bad laid upon him were very strong. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/908 "2022-10-01T16:33:45Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > The show has almost everything wrong, so I am now watching this as someone else’s second age campaign using names for Tolkien but not a lot else. I reckon the series scope can & will include the first couple thousand years of the _third_ age (Gandalf, Balrog of Moria, Durin IV) In the first ep, Gil-galad says to Elrond after sending Galadriel off: "For the same wind that seeks to blow out a fire may also cause its spread.” Well, that has happened. Sauron has no need reveal himself now, even as Mordor is fired up around him. Eregion could use a really good smith. When Sauron does reveal himself in all his glory, the blame can easily be put upon the Noldor Elfs who were the catalyst. I look forward to the event when Gil-galad, Elrond, Elendil and Sauron meet again. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/909 "2022-10-01T16:39:32Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > The show has almost everything wrong, so I am now watching this as someone else’s second age campaign using names for Tolkien but not a lot else. I’ve been trying to take the show on its own merits, as it deserves-I am no JRRT fanboi to start with (only having read the books soon before the 1st movie came out, and have come to see some of the professor’s own dramatic choices as flawed in and of their own-yeah, heresy I know), but I have to take any filmed work on its own merits, regardless of how closely it adheres to the source material, or not. My 1 month free Prime membership expires after the next episode, and I pretty much have decided to tell Amazon to cancel it before I am charged. My main issue is that the show is plot-driven, not character-driven; TPTB almost invariably force the characters to fit into their narrow predetermined mold/plot outline, where they rarely seen able to breathe on their own. Their character, or lack thereof, doesn’t seem to matter much. Galadriel has to be a shrill bitch because she must serve the demands of the plot. As a result they often are constantly having to hoist TVT’s Idiot Ball to keep the plot moving the way TPTB demand. I mean, nobody checking the wrapped weapon or hell noting that it would have a completely different shape if not weight than a f. axe just completely threw me out of the story last night, as did the whole volcano thing which I am sure had every vulcanologist in the audience rolling their eyes all the way back in their head. My suspension of disbelief was nuked along both axes (heh) by the end of the episode (Rocks Fall Everyone Dies, or so it should be). Contrast all that with how PJ did his movies, where it was the individual character of each personage which ultimately determined how the plot progressed, outside of the main “We have to destroy this eldritch artifact to save the world” plot framework. Maybe that is in part because PJ’s troupe were in the main better actors than this bunch… There’s that, and simply how PJ had a much firmer grasp of how to get the material to come _alive_, a better sense of filmcraft. Someone on the OneRing board last night listed almost 2 dozen scenes from the trilogy which worked better than anything has so far in the show, and yeah. [Note PJ was guilty of his own sins, but this show demonstrates that the original trilogy could have been many orders of magnitude worse than it was.] ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/910 "2022-10-01T16:46:51Z")
Theo needs a smack, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/911 "2022-10-01T17:02:10Z")
We need a thread called “children who ruin things” in movies and TV. Example: Bode on Locke and Key was so bad, if he had died in the first episode, many lives would have been saved and improved. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/912 "2022-10-01T17:14:18Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > There’s that, and simply how PJ had a much firmer grasp of how to get the material to come _alive_, a better sense of filmcraft. Someone on the OneRing board last night listed almost 2 dozen scenes from the trilogy which worked better than anything has so far in the show, and yeah. But let’s be fair. The Lord of the Rings trilogy of films are considered some of the greatest films ever made. I’m not sure it’s fair to compare this to them. (Feel free to compare them to the Hobbit movies though. 😉) ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/913 "2022-10-01T17:15:01Z")
[Erik Kain over at Forbes nails all the low points.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2022/09/30/the-rings-of-power-episode-6-review-not-even-a-battle-can-save-this-dumpster-fire/?sh=17d2f5b24988) ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/914 "2022-10-01T21:26:59Z")
I’ve been enjoying Robert Romanus from _Fast Times at Ridgemont Hight_ in the role of Isidur. [![](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhT0aG_uZSyd3nYZD3o9skmGj434dYX_tXCwTqq_RBwhXMQHF7RbGlFuGc_QFGZYUXJdh5cFdyOBFw4xTvCWSOC6nte2NS4pYqGdTpMw0H7VVE4X5wsFUvc1ucbnqW_brqUmDDF588TxsF66c-k_lmQADw9dKqXpIVelCZ-RX7FCdlN8iIVQk1cQEgdVQ/s1988/Screen%20Shot%202021-08-14%20at%2011.04.32%20AM.jpeg) ](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhT0aG_uZSyd3nYZD3o9skmGj434dYX_tXCwTqq_RBwhXMQHF7RbGlFuGc_QFGZYUXJdh5cFdyOBFw4xTvCWSOC6nte2NS4pYqGdTpMw0H7VVE4X5wsFUvc1ucbnqW_brqUmDDF588TxsF66c-k_lmQADw9dKqXpIVelCZ-RX7FCdlN8iIVQk1cQEgdVQ/s1988/Screen%20Shot%202021-08-14%20at%2011.04.32%20AM.jpeg) [![](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNTI1YTk4ZWQtOGQ5Mi00YTBhLTkwNjYtM2Q4MGNkN2NiZWY2XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjQ3NDc5MzY@._V1_.jpg) ](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNTI1YTk4ZWQtOGQ5Mi00YTBhLTkwNjYtM2Q4MGNkN2NiZWY2XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjQ3NDc5MzY@._V1_.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/915 "2022-10-01T21:30:27Z")
I hate this. He reminds me of some 80’s actor but I can’t place it. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/916 "2022-10-01T21:32:34Z")
I already made the Elrond/Doogie reference, but maybe a visual illustration will show what I mean. [![](https://news.trenddetail.com/content/uploads/2022/08/26/7b3b5fab7d.jpg) ](https://news.trenddetail.com/content/uploads/2022/08/26/7b3b5fab7d.jpg) [![](https://celebrites.tn/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/What-is-Max-Casella-doing-now.jpg) ](https://celebrites.tn/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/What-is-Max-Casella-doing-now.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/917 "2022-10-01T22:43:27Z")
So I guess Elves are immune to [pyroclastic flow](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyroclastic_flow) then? ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/918 "2022-10-01T22:58:56Z")
They dodge it in slow-mo. If they’re inside, would people survive? ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/919 "2022-10-01T23:05:30Z")
Isn’t there typically a nice wave of toxic air along with the ash, lava, &c.? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/920 "2022-10-01T23:07:09Z")
Wiki: > [@](#): > > A **pyroclastic flow** (also known as a **pyroclastic density current** or a **pyroclastic cloud** )[[1]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyroclastic_flow#cite_note-1) is a fast-moving current of hot [gas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_gas) and volcanic matter (collectively known as [tephra](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tephra)) that flows along the ground away from a [volcano](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcano) at average speeds of 100 km/h (30 m/s) but is capable of reaching speeds up to 700 km/h (190 m/s).[[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyroclastic_flow#cite_note-2) **The gases and tephra can reach temperatures of about 1,000 °C (1,800 °F).** ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/921 "2022-10-01T23:08:47Z")
Crispy Elf. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/922 "2022-10-01T23:29:07Z")
I’m gonna call this right now. Next ep. will all be Nori & her new friend for the 1st 50 minutes or so. They notice the volcano exploding, and-hey!-turns out the Harfoots are now pretty close to the Southlanders and Numenoreans. The Stranger/Wizard, now fully aware of his power as a Maia, shows up just in the nick of time to shield everybody from the volcano with a huge force field, or, whatever. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497.md?page=47)