# Amazon Lord of the Rings series; The Rings of Power **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth, amazon-prime, tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [March 3, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497 "2019-03-03T20:01:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/983 "2022-10-09T04:22:47Z")
I caught up on the last two episodes tonight. The writers are still engaging in those stupid scenes where they want to make you think someone is about to die, but then you already know no one of consequence will die, so it’s just dumb drama. ffs kill someone we care about already, or at least poke the elf’s eye out. At least the plot moved forward, and I admit I did like the whole Rube Goldberg with the water and the volcano. Kaboom! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/984 "2022-10-09T04:29:23Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > She marries him later, so I’m sure he’s just “missing” and we won’t see him. She called him “my husband”, so they’re already married at this point. > [@squeegee](#): > > These hobbits can be jerks. It’s a proud hobbit tradition. Just ask the Sackville-Bagginses. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/985 "2022-10-09T04:29:26Z")
They can’t really do that though. While fiction this is more like a historical drama. As though we were watching Braveheart and realize that the main character lived till the end. Likewise here, we know Galadriel will not, cannot die because we see her in movies that happen in the future. This is not Game of Thrones. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/986 "2022-10-09T04:38:32Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > They can’t really do that though. While fiction this is more like a historical drama. As though we were watching Braveheart and realize that the main character lived till the end. Likewise here, we know Galadriel will not, cannot die because we see her in movies that happen in the future. Are Arondir, Theo, Bronwyn, or Adar canonical? You could certainly kill one of them. But I do understand that they won’t, and that’s exactly my point – a two minute battle between Arondir and a mega-orc has no tension at all, and certainly no arrow is going to kill Bronwyn. So we just plow through the scenes, hitting our beats. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/987 "2022-10-09T04:59:06Z")
Oh, and I liked the part where they lifted the helmets and saw who they had been killing. And the reappearance of Expository Orc was a callback to the Two Towers I certainly did not expect. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/988 "2022-10-09T06:17:55Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > What struck me as tedious and stupid was all these folk in the aftermath of the volcano - 1) most should be dead, 2) they’ll _all_ die if they don’t leave immediately (smoke and ash inhalation if nothing else) So… My annoyance with that was after the previous episode. I’ve been watching with a friend (remotely) and after the end of the prior episode, he said, “so, Galadrial is dead, series over.” And during this week’s recap we said the same thing, “yup, they’re all dead”. And of course, we knew they weren’t, because > [@Maserschmidt](#): > > but then you already know no one of consequence will die, so it’s just dumb drama. So i was REALLY annoyed last week. But this week they moved past that, and i felt what followed was better. > [@squeegee](#): > > And, hell, the whole thing with the proto hobbits telling Gandalf to get lost after the tree incident. He helped two families migrate a bazillion miles on foot, saving their lives, then dramatically saved some from wargs. But didn’t wake up a dead tree - and they _exiled_ him. These hobbits can be jerks. I didn’t read that as them telling him to get lost. I thought they were trying to help him find what he was looking for. He’d plummeted to earth for some purpose. And they were grateful to him, and wanted to help him fulfill that purpose. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/989 "2022-10-09T06:23:27Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Are Arondir, Theo, Bronwyn, or Adar canonical? You could certainly kill one of them. Heh. As Theo was wandering around, despairing for his mom, my friend said to him, “don’t worry, they’ll be fine. They have plot-shield”. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/990 "2022-10-09T07:30:08Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > there seems to be something about Middle-Earth that everyone just seems to love Up until they hear the sea-calling, apparently. The elves in question are mostly ones who’ve never been to Valinor, so don’t really have a basis for comparison. Of the ones who have, like Gil-Galad and Galadriel, see below… > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Elves (many of them at least) left Valinor to be in Middle Earth. Well, there was all that stuff about Silmarils, and Kin-slaying…I don’t think it was necessarily the pull of Middle-Earth itself. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > They were all about dominating Middle-Earth and not living in heaven Are you saying the _elves_ want to stay in Middle-Earth so they can dominate it? > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I’m not sure what it is but those in Middle Earth seem committed to it I got the sense it was some combo of duty and inertia. And I’m not saying Middle-Earth _isn’t_ attractive to the elves. It clearly is. Many elves _have_ died for it. already, more will later. But the alternative to “die without _mithril_” still isn’t Hell on Earth. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > while some could go back to Valinor at almost any time they never do Everyone except Galadriel on that ship seemed _super_ keen. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/991 "2022-10-09T07:32:07Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Are you saying the _elves_ want to stay in Middle-Earth so they can dominate it? Seems to me that that’s at least some of Gil-Galad’s motivation. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/992 "2022-10-09T07:32:25Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Are you saying the _elves_ want to stay in Middle-Earth so they can dominate it? I am saying Morgoth and Sauron wanted to dominate it rather than chill in Valinor with umbrella drinks. The Valar are certainly committed to Middle Earth and fight for it on a few occasions (not to mention mostly making it). Indeed, once Eru created the whole place the Valar and loads of Maiar seemed keen to get in knowing they could not leave until the end of days. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/993 "2022-10-09T07:39:07Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Seems to me that that’s at least some of Gil-Galad’s motivation. You know, now that I think about it, you’re right. You can’t place watch towers over people and not be said to dominate them (even if they were evil). > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am saying Morgoth and Sauron wanted to dominate it rather than chill in Valinor with umbrella drinks. Sure. But we were discussing the elves, not the Ainur. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The Valar are certainly committed to Middle Earth Sure, but they definitely don’t _live_ there. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Indeed, once Eru created the whole place the Valar and loads of Maiar seemed keen to get in knowing they could not leave until the end of days. That’s Arda as a whole, not Middle-Earth specifically. AFAIK, no Ainur are bound to Middle-Earth specifically. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/994 "2022-10-09T07:41:31Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s Arda as a whole, not Middle-Earth specifically. AFAIK, no Ainur are bound to Middle-Earth specifically. Until the Third Age was there a big distinction between Middle-Earth and Valinor? Seemed to me until the end of the second age anyone with a rowboat could get to Valinor. I mean, certainly they were distinct places but they were in the same world. Like going from California to Japan. In this TV show (and the books) Valinor is not all that far from Numenor (which many of us know becomes a big deal near the end). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/995 "2022-10-09T08:21:14Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Until the Third Age was there a big distinction between Middle-Earth and Valinor? Well, yes - or how could the [Hiding of Valinor](https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Nurtal%C3%AB_Valin%C3%B3reva) work? > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Seemed to me until the end of the second age anyone with a rowboat could get to Valinor. Not if they didn’t have a Silmaril (or were an elf), [they didn’t.](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Enchanted_Isles) > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Like going from California to Japan. We read nothing of Númenóreans popping off to Aman on sightseeing tours. [Because they couldn’t.](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Ban_of_the_Valar). And when they broke that restriction, shit went _down_. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Valinor is not all that far from Numenor far enough and with sufficient obstacles that mortals weren’t just popping across ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/996 "2022-10-09T08:23:46Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Well, yes - or how could the [Hiding of Valinor](https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Nurtal%C3%AB_Valin%C3%B3reva) work? Seems to me Valinor was still in the world. They just made it harder to get to like making the mountains taller and more impassable. Not like in the Third Age where Valinor is impossible to get to except via special (dare I say magical) means. > [@MrDibble](#): > > far enough and with sufficient obstacles that mortals weren’t just popping across We know how the Second Age ends. How did men get there if it was not possible except for elves to get there? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/997 "2022-10-09T08:54:18Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Seems to me Valinor was still in the world. Yes, of course it was. I didn’t say it wasn’t. But “the world” is Arda, not Middle-Earth, and you asked me if there was “a big distinction between Middle-Earth and Valinor”. Yes, they were two separate places. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > How did men get there if it was not possible except for elves to get there? The Shadowy Sea isn’t an _absolute_ barrier (for one thing, it didn’t seem to cover the absolute north and south of Aman), but it certainly precluded Japan-California-style trips from Numenor. Or “anyone with a rowboat” getting through. In any case, the ban wasn’t that no mortal _could_ ever get through. It was that death was the penalty for any that did. This is brought up in the story of Eärendil, where special pleading gets him exempted from that death sentence (and immortality into the bargain). My head-canon is that the Valar let the Númenóreans through specifically to clear the way for Eru to fuck their shit up. Or, Tolkien was inconsistent. Would not be the first time. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/998 "2022-10-09T10:24:21Z")
So from what I gather, in theory all the elves _could_ just leave Middle-Earth if they wanted? And I have a science question but I will ask it elsewhere. 😁 ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/999 "2022-10-09T14:01:04Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > The Harfood’s speech about “being true to each other” was BS. We just went through several episodes hearing about how they leave people behind who can’t keep up with their caravan. Even orcs don’t do that. Inspirational speeches often are. That’s a time that that truth matters less than a good lie that gets your team up to fight in the second half. And a really good lie really well told may get the team believing it enough to make it true in the next half! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1000 "2022-10-09T14:07:54Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > So from what I gather, in theory all the elves _could_ just leave Middle-Earth if they wanted? Yes. The Noldor elves, specifically (e.g Gil-galad and Galadriel), were banned earlier, but that’s been lifted ever since Morgoth was defeated. There’s no ban on other elves (like the Sindar, Nandor and Avari ) who never went to Valinor in the first place (and so were never exiled like the Noldor), AFAIK. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1001 "2022-10-09T14:16:29Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Yes. The Noldor elves, specifically (e.g Gil-galad and Galadriel), were banned earlier, but that’s been lifted ever since Morgoth was defeated. There’s no ban on other elves (like the Sindar, Nandor and Avari ) who never went to Valinor in the first place (and so were never exiled like the Noldor), AFAIK. So then why is Galadriel’s leaving in the show made to seem like a huge honor? If any Tom, Dick or Arondir (who really is very good) can just sail out to there, why the ceremony? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1002 "2022-10-09T14:27:47Z")
Somehow I find the harfoots extremely grating on my nerves to watch. I’m not sure what it is, but I find myself skipping through their scenes. Completely the opposite of my experience of Lord of the Rings, which made me want to move into cozy Hobbiton. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497.md?page=51)