# Amazon Lord of the Rings series; The Rings of Power **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth, amazon-prime, tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [March 3, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497 "2019-03-03T20:01:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 65
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1283 "2022-10-16T13:31:59Z")
1. In general a fantasy world benefits from consistency in its rules. That was of course part of the strength of the source material: the world had depth formed that gave what was presented structure that made internally consistent sense. It’s part of the game, like creating an alternate maths … here’s an alternate set of axioms and apply a math with proofs using them. But parallel lines either never cross or they do. Don’t switch between the two in the same proof. 2. The better the story, the more compelling the characters, or even just if it is enough goofy fun, the less we readers/viewers/consumers will notice or care about breaks of the above. A great story needs a lot of rule breaking to take me out of it. A story nots so great with not great characters? I’m already not so deeply in so it does not take much of a break to annoy. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1284 "2022-10-16T13:38:15Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Surrealist fantasy is a thing. Sure, but it’s not a thing i enjoy. And it’s not anything like the Lord of the Rings i grew up with and fell in love with. And as @DSeid implies, i have not found this story so gripping that it takes much for me to be more annoyed by the broken physics than i am interested in what the characters are doing. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1285 "2022-10-16T13:43:24Z")
Shows like _Doom Patrol_ run on “Madness” and I expect weird stuff. _The Good Place_ and _Good Omens_ have plenty of madness but were still extremely well thought out. Middle-Earth Stuff is very well grounded, consistent and maybe most importantly thought out. The Rings of Power, not so much. This is a problem. Even a chaotic show like _The Boys_ suffers when they’re inconsistent or not well thought out. And believe me, my standards are a lot lower for it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1286 "2022-10-16T13:51:04Z")
Meh on the logistics, IMO. I see this as a multiverse adaptation. In one of the infinite Middle Earths out there, this is broadly how it happened. Maybe the ships and horses took a bit longer than portrayed on the screen, but it’s mostly accurate. I’ve enjoyed it. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1287 "2022-10-16T13:55:31Z")
A little [Travel by Map](https://muppet.fandom.com/wiki/Traveling_by_map#:~:text=Traveling%20by%20map%20is%20a,series%20which%20popularized%20the%20effect.) would have been helpful and appreciated. Even Travel by Calendar. It is somewhat ironic as the Good Professor really sweated out the travel time details and a few times in writing the Lord of the Rings, Tolkien went back and rewrote completed stuff to make his timeline accurate. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1288 "2022-10-16T21:59:30Z")
Slate had an interesting article on women in _Rings of Power_ compared to the earlier books and movies. It doesn’t actively shit on Tolkien’s writings or the other movies (with the exception of Tauriel), but it highlights some things we’ve learned about representation in the last 20 years. > The vast number of female characters on the show, which represent all of Middle-Earth’s races, means that no character has the burden of representing an entire gender. None of the women on _Rings of Power_ could be defined as “not like other girls,” like Eowyn in the films, because they make up a range of personalities, strengths, and weaknesses…Gender is not presented as something that these characters have to overcome on _The Rings of Power._ They don’t need to be exceptional to be noteworthy. They make choices, succeed, and fail on equal grounds as the male characters. The writer appreciates Galadriel’s flaws as well. > Good, three-dimensional characters have to mess up in order to grow, but when one character represents an entire group in a narrative they risk reinforcing a stereotype. We don’t have to worry about that with Galadriel because she’s not the only woman on screen. When she’s infuriating it’s because she’s being infuriating. > **[One Way The Rings of Power Outdoes the Lord of the Rings Movies](https://slate.com/culture/2022/10/rings-of-power-lord-of-the-rings-female-characters.html)** > > Imagine how cringe “I am no man” would read today. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1289 "2022-10-16T22:10:19Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > it’s hypocrisy to complain about some law breaking but not other, even _more_ egregious ones. That’s a funny word to use to describe esthetic preferences. It’s usually used to describe moral positions. I certainly don’t think the creators of “rings of power” were morally wrong to ignore physics and have a shaky timeline. I just think those choices made the show a lot less enjoyable, for me, than it might have been. And that makes me sad. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1290 "2022-10-16T22:24:42Z")
I like that article. It makes a lot of sense. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1291 "2022-10-16T22:34:24Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I certainly don’t think the creators of “rings of power” were morally wrong to ignore physics and have a shaky timeline. It’s weird for you to phrase it that way, though, when almost all fiction ignores physics and has a shaky timeline. Maybe RoP does do in a way that bothers you in a particular way, but that’s not because it’s doing anything different; it’s because the particular choices they made collide badly with your personal preferences. I have my own views on what violations of physics counts as acceptable fantasy vs. regrettable but understandable to keep the plot moving vs. totally ruining things, but I’m not going to say that series X is violating the laws of physics and series Y is not. They’re all nonsense in the end. ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1292 "2022-10-16T23:31:14Z")
So Galadriel didn’t tell the others that Halbrand was Sauron because Sauron told her they’d reject her for being his ally? I mean, this is Sauron fer crissakes. The dude you’ve been hunting all your life and now you keep it a secret? Other than that part, I really enjoyed this last episode. In fact, the whole season got better with each episode. Hopefully, it will continue to improve in season 2. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1293 "2022-10-16T23:40:05Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > almost all fiction ignores physics and has a shaky timeline Almost all fiction? Really? I’ll grant that certain genres of fiction, especially onscreen fiction (like action movies), have a tendency to “ignore physics and/or have a shaky timeline.” But I don’t think it’s true for anywhere near “almost all fiction.” ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2022, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1294 "2022-10-16T23:58:32Z")
Well, let’s say “almost all fiction where physics is relevant to the story.” Sci-fi and fantasy certainly qualify, as do action, adventure, etc. In some cases, like the occasional comedy, the violation is crucial to the joke. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2022, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1295 "2022-10-17T01:35:09Z")
I thinks that’s a Sauron power thing, he gets in your head makes you paranoid and fearful of what others will think , Galadriel isn’t immune to those seeds of self doubt and paranoia and that’s the way Sauron rolls. I was yelling at screen the first episode or two, but got over it when I made peace with the changes. Over all I liked it. I assume the ‘ mithril is partially made from balrog fried by lightning ‘ or however that came out is how they will explain how the elven rings , even though Sauron didn’t help make them, are tainted and have some link to the one ring as they are intrinsically tainted by the mithril . Kinda sorta think that works better than the original where the eleven rings whilst not beholden to the One because Sauron provided some ideas on how magical rings could be made . Then again, maybe the method suggested had a built in back door to the OS ? Anyway I liked it , although I am good with magic, gods, beings landing in meteors, I am in the ‘ running up falling rocks and armies traveling impossible distances in a day drag me out of it ‘ camp . The odd thing is that the need for that is all set by the apparent need to create drama through the “ the impending doom will be here my nightfall” . Just say ‘ bad guys on the way and we got a week to think and ponder on our inevitable death’ , more drama and doom and tension , and the cavalry can still save the day and maintain some sense of reality ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2022, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1296 "2022-10-17T02:16:28Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > > [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > > > Regarding the Stranger: Re-embodiment by way of meteorite is an imprecise business at best. The two Blue Wizards landed in widely separated locations in Middle Earth and it will take a while before they make the rendezvous in Rhun. Sauron went way off course and landed in the sea, destroying a passing ship in the process. > > Huh, I think it was assumed that that was one meteorite seen by many different people across Middle-Earth, but it _could_ have actually been three (or more). Meant to be at least slightly tongue in cheek. Proposing a scenario where the Stranger could be a Blue Wizard (who came to ME together), and also explain why Sauron appears on a wrecked ship in the middle of the sea. The three proto-Nazgûl (Sauron learns that they need more power to stand up to even a befuddled wizard, so he give them some rings) seemed to be expecting Sauron’s arrival by meteorite. Just re-watched the last episode. Celembrimbor’s workshop has more anvils than the Acme factory… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2022, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1297 "2022-10-17T02:28:45Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > The three proto-Nazgûl (Sauron learns that they need more power to stand up to even a befuddled wizard, so he give them some rings) seemed to be expecting Sauron’s arrival by meteorite. Sauron did not give the rings to wraiths. He gave them to Mortal man Kings and magicians, who in the course of Life- died, and became Wraiths, and thus Nazgul. (And yes, there are Human Magic users, and perhaps even Dwarven ones- altho of a different sort of course). The Istari and the Elves were not the only ones who could do magic, magic was kinda common. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2022, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1298 "2022-10-17T02:55:11Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Sauron did not give the rings to wraiths. Well, he didn’t in the books. Who the hell knows whether he might in this story. And honestly, I’d be okay with that. I’ve gotten over being upset at major plot changes. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2022, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1299 "2022-10-17T03:02:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > > > The three proto-Nazgûl (Sauron learns that they need more power to stand up to even a befuddled wizard, so he give them some rings) seemed to be expecting Sauron’s arrival by meteorite. > > Sauron did not give the rings to wraiths. He gave them to Mortal man Kings and magicians, who in the course of Life- died, and became Wraiths, and thus Nazgul. (And yes, there are Human Magic users, and perhaps even Dwarven ones- altho of a different sort of course). The Istari and the Elves were not the only ones who could do magic, magic was kinda common. I didn’t mean he gave them to the these three (which the Stranger nuked anyway) but he realized that the next ones he turns will need more power to have any shot against wizards. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2022, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1300 "2022-10-17T03:05:20Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > I didn’t mean he gave them to the these three (which the Stranger nuked anyway) but he realized that the next ones he turns will need more power to have any shot against wizards. Okay, I can buy that. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2022, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1301 "2022-10-17T04:22:54Z")
> [@Precambrianmollusc](#): > > Just say ‘ bad guys on the way and we got a week to think and ponder on our inevitable death’ , more drama and doom and tension , and the cavalry can still save the day and maintain some sense of reality Maybe we can just assume a _Dunkirk_ kind of timeline, where sequential scenes are not necessarily happening at the same time? There is no communication between Middle Earth and Numenor, the Numenorians are heading to ME on a general principle rather than in direct response to the imminent threat on Tirharad. Halbrand/Sauron just knows Adar’s plan to take over the Southlands (strategy), not necessarily the specifics of where attacks will happen (tactics). They could have edited the episode so that the Numenorians set sail before the Orcs tunnels were discovered, so that their arrival at Tirharad would be more clearly a coincidence rather than s rescue mission. And what’s with the “this Galadriel is a ditz, not like the Galadriel in LOTR” complaints? She has millennia to achieve the level of wisdom shown by LOTR Galadriel. Wisdom that she can achieve by making mistakes and learning from them. Her experience in ME so far has been a search and destroy mission against Orcs; when would she have learned how to deal with non-Elfs who think in different ways, have different priorities, and much more experience in politics and subterfuge? Remember it was Arondir who said the the elves’ fighting skills are not as much from inborn skill as from having had way more time to practice than their opponents. Galadriel just needs a few millennia more practice in interpersonal relations… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2022, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497/1302 "2022-10-17T04:40:09Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > That’s a funny word to use to describe esthetic preferences. It’s usually used to describe moral positions. Pick a better word then, I didn’t mean to imply a moral judgement - Contradictory? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497.md?page=64) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-the-rings-of-power/830497.md?page=66)