# Amazon lost Walmart and Target's Kindle sales **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 20, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lost-walmart-and-targets-kindle-sales/635330 "2012-09-20T23:10:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lost-walmart-and-targets-kindle-sales/635330/21 "2012-09-21T23:00:40Z")
> [@Driver8](#): > > To clarify, Amazon is going to start collecting California sales tax. Technically residents have always had to pay the sales tax, but I suspect in almost all cases didn’t. New York has an especially annoying version of this. They charge all tax payers a fixed amount of sales tax when you file your state income tax return - the assumption is you must have bought stuff online during the year and didn’t pay sales tax on it. It’s bad enough New York assumes every tax payer owes the state unpaid sales taxes. But at the same time, NY is pushing very hard to get online businesses like Amazon to collect sales taxes for NY purchasers. It’s damned annoying to have to pay sales tax when I buy something on Amazon and then a few months later have to pay another sales tax on the supposed basis that I hadn’t paid it at the time of the purchase. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lost-walmart-and-targets-kindle-sales/635330/22 "2012-09-21T23:08:43Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > New York has an especially annoying version of this. They charge all tax payers a fixed amount of sales tax when you file your state income tax return - the assumption is you must have bought stuff online during the year and didn’t pay sales tax on it. The [instructions](http://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/2011/inc/it201i_2011.pdf) (PDF, page 33) say you can enter 0 as the amount of use tax owed: > [@](#): > > If you do not owe any sales or use tax, you must enter 0 on line 59. Do not leave line 59 blank. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Niply\_Elder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@The\_Niply\_Elder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Niply_Elder)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lost-walmart-and-targets-kindle-sales/635330/23 "2012-09-23T21:25:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s damned annoying to have to pay sales tax when I buy something on Amazon and then a few months later have to pay another sales tax on the supposed basis that I hadn’t paid it at the time of the purchase. huh? Explain this. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2012, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lost-walmart-and-targets-kindle-sales/635330/24 "2012-09-23T22:48:44Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > The [instructions](http://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/2011/inc/it201i_2011.pdf) (PDF, page 33) say you can enter 0 as the amount of use tax owed: I found it somewhat ambiguous. The same set of instructions tells you how to figure out the amount you owe and there’s no way to arrive at a figure of zero. > [@](#): > > If your federal adjusted gross income (line 18) is: Enter on line 59: > up to 15,000\* ........................................... 9 > 15,001 - $30,000 … 20 > 30,001 - 50,000 … 27 > 50,001 - 75,000 … 35 > 75,001 - 100,000 … 49 > 100,001 - 150,000 … 68 > 150,001 - 200,000 … 85 > 200,001 and greater … .0424% (.000424) of income, or $250, whichever amount is smaller ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lost-walmart-and-targets-kindle-sales/635330/25 "2012-09-23T22:49:45Z")
> [@The\_Niply\_Elder](#): > > huh? Explain this. I’m not sure what it is you’re asking to have explained. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lost-walmart-and-targets-kindle-sales/635330/26 "2012-09-23T22:54:06Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I found it somewhat ambiguous. The same set of instructions tells you how to figure out the amount you owe and there’s no way to arrive at a figure of zero. You arrive at a figure of zero by not owing any sales or use tax: > [@](#): > > **If you owe sales or use tax** , you may report the amount > you owe on your personal income tax return rather than filing > Form ST-140. > [@](#): > > If you do not owe any sales or use tax, you must enter 0 on > line 59. I don’t see how that’s ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lost-walmart-and-targets-kindle-sales/635330/27 "2012-09-23T23:38:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I found it somewhat ambiguous. The same set of instructions tells you how to figure out the amount you owe and there’s no way to arrive at a figure of zero. It’s not ambiguous at all- the instructions clearly state that \*\*if \*\*you owe sales and use tax, you can use that chart to calculate the amount rather than calculating the precise amount on a different form. If you don’t owe any sales and use taxes, you are to enter zero. You can’t look at the chart out of the context of the entire page. > [@](#): > > **If** you owe sales or use tax, you **may** report the amount > you owe on your personal income tax return rather than filing > Form ST-140. > Using the sales and use tax chart below is an easy way > to compute your liability for all your purchases of items or > services costing less than $1,000 each (excluding shipping and > handling) that are not related to a business, rental real estate, > or royalty activities.(emphasis added) You are always free to keep a precise record of all purchases for which you may owe state or county use taxes- and that means if I buy something in Monroe county and bring it back to Queens, I’ll owe the 7/8% difference in tax. Many people (including me \*) probably just use the table rather than keep precise records but you absolutely can keep records, and if those records reflect no purchases for which use tax is owed, then you don’t owe any. If your records show you owe $.50 in use taxes, then that’s what you owe. - Personally, I buy way too much on line and outside of NYC to want to keep track of every gallon of paint or paperback book I buy in Nassau or Westchester county - the aggravation wouldn’t be worth what I would save , and in truth , I doubt I will save anything.That chart has me paying tax on about $1000 of untaxed purchases ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lost-walmart-and-targets-kindle-sales/635330/28 "2012-09-24T00:09:53Z")
At least you have the option of using that chart. In Ohio, we’re just supposed to keep records. (Unsurprisingly, only around 0.9% of taxpayers do it.) ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lost-walmart-and-targets-kindle-sales/635330/29 "2012-09-24T12:06:29Z")
You can add Pennsylvania to the list of states that will require Amazon to start collecting sales tax on purchases because Amazon has a physical presence here. (They’ve got a couple of warehouses that are close enough that I wish I could just go over and pick my stuff up.) ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lost-walmart-and-targets-kindle-sales/635330/30 "2012-09-24T14:09:03Z")
I think Walmart & Target screwed the pooch on this one. If I thought I wanted a kindle, _maybe_ I’d use the brick & mortar places as a showroom and then buy online, but probably not. More than likely, if I thought I wanted a Kindle I’d talk to family/aquaintance who already has one, fiddle about with theirs for a few minutes, have the trusted person give me their unbiased opinions about it and then decide if I want one Right Now (head to Walmart/Target) or order it from Amazon if I think about it next time I’m surfing. What WON’T happen, now they don’t carry the gizmos, is I WON’T go into their store to browse the Kindle and then think, “Oh hey, since I’m here I need to get me some XYZ”, or “Oh that looks cool, I think I’ll get that doo-dad.” ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lost-walmart-and-targets-kindle-sales/635330/31 "2012-09-24T14:24:56Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > That’s the whole reason both places stopped selling them. All they were was show rooms for Amazon. People would come in to check them out, then go home and buy them from Amazon. Replace “them” [Kindles] with anything Amazon sells, perhaps. If I understand correctly, the issue is not just the Kindle themselves, but that Amazon is a direct competitor to Wal-mart and Target, and it doesn’t make economic sense to help out a competitor. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lost-walmart-and-targets-kindle-sales/635330/32 "2012-09-24T14:28:04Z")
What you haven’t explained is why Amazon would want you to buy it out of the other stores at all. If so few people are buying them in brick-and-mortar stores that none of the major players want to sell them, then there must not be a market for buying a Kindle in such a store. Therefore, Amazon loses nothing. And yes, having them in stores cheaper than online would 100% hurt their online sales. It creates a market for people to buy it in stores from the people who always look for the cheapest way, which is apparently a very large demographic based on the lack of store purchases. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lost-walmart-and-targets-kindle-sales/635330/33 "2012-09-24T15:07:07Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > If I understand correctly, the issue is not just the Kindle themselves, but that Amazon is a direct competitor to Wal-mart and Target, and it doesn’t make economic sense to help out a competitor. That’s what’s weird about this. Presumably Target/Walmart gets a cut for each Kindle they sell. By ceasing to carry the item, they essentially _force_ customers to shop at the competetition. That eliminates any profit they would get from selling the item either online or in a store, it eliminates associated impulse shopping, it strengthens Amazon as one of the few remaining vendors of a very hot item, and it strengthens Amazon by providing _them_ with impulse shopping. For this to make sense Amazon must have been demanding a ridiculous concession for the stores to have the honor of shelving their products. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lost-walmart-and-targets-kindle-sales/635330/34 "2012-09-24T15:31:53Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Well, if Amazon discounted the Kindle’s wholesale price. Then Walmart and Target could sell just under Amazons web price. That way Walmart customers would buy it there. Because it isn’t the sale of the Kindles that Target and Wal-Mart are worried about. Suppose a customer buys a Kindle. Now, both Target and Wal-Mart sell books. Now, what portion of their book sales will now go to Amazon via the Kindle? How about music sales? DVD? For that matter, once the customer starts using Amazon and sees what _else_ they can buy there, how many of their _other_ sales are they suddenly going to lose to Amazon. Target and Wal-Mart don’t care how much they make or don’t make on the Kindle itself. It’s the rest of their stores they’re worried about. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lost-walmart-and-targets-kindle-sales/635330/35 "2012-09-24T15:49:13Z")
Especially since Amazon is doing its damnedest to speed up delivery, with _same-day_ delivery being tested in some areas. Brick-and-mortar is still strong because of the convenience of getting everything you need right away, but if Amazon had their way, you’d never have to leave your house to shop. Just turn on your Kindle Fire, go to the Grocery section, do your shopping and checkout, and the next day (or in a few hours) your groceries are on your doorstep. Even if that’s decades away from a reality or never comes about at all, the fact is that the Kindle is only partially a media device. It’s also a window to the Amazon store. There’s no reason at all to expect Target or Wal-Mart to support that. ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lost-walmart-and-targets-kindle-sales/635330/36 "2012-09-24T18:50:01Z")
> [@tanstaafl](#): > > Suppose a customer buys a Kindle. Now, both Target and Wal-Mart sell books. Now, what portion of their book sales will now go to Amazon via the Kindle? How about music sales? DVD? But these stores still sell iPods and iPads and other idevices that get all their content via iTunes, right? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lost-walmart-and-targets-kindle-sales/635330/37 "2012-09-24T19:07:16Z")
But Apple only sells content. Amazon sells virtually _everything_ you can buy in Target or Walmart, so it’s much more of a threat. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lost-walmart-and-targets-kindle-sales/635330/38 "2012-09-24T19:13:18Z")
Merged duplicate threads. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lost-walmart-and-targets-kindle-sales/635330/39 "2012-09-24T22:52:31Z")
The conflict of interest that Target and Walmart refer to is their book sales. Sell a kindle to someone, they are not going to buy books from Target anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lost-walmart-and-targets-kindle-sales/635330/40 "2012-09-25T04:28:11Z")
Eh, not all books are available in eformat. And I will still browse the book & magazine section at Target (and the video games section as well) when I’m in there. And yes, I buy some books and games in brick and mortar stores. The thing with Target and Walmart and similar places is, when I shop there, I’m likely to pick up quite a few impulse buys. I might go in the store to pick up some staples, but I’ll browse other sections as well, and I’ll usually find quite a few things that I want, so they go in my basket. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-lost-walmart-and-targets-kindle-sales/635330.md?page=1)