# Amazon seller protection, again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-seller-protection-again/643347 "2012-12-07T21:00:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-seller-protection-again/643347/1 "2012-12-07T21:00:36Z")
So I bought a junior member of the household a Tracfone for their first cel phone. Amazon had the best prices, through a seller named shopcelldeals. The phone, a microSD card and a minutes card all came from the same seller. Since Amazon fulfilled the phone and SD card, there was no shipping. The price on the minutes card (1 year/400 minutes) was good but there was a $5.00 shipping charge on it… oh, well. I got the “card” today - a photocopied sheet of instructions with a PIN number sticker stuck on it. No seller name, contact info, validation, anything. I assume the number is valid and will work, but as I don’t have the phone in hand yet I can’t tell. So it doesn’t work… won’t it be fun to try and resolve the issue! So I wrote a review pointing out that if they weren’t going to send me an actual, physical Tracfone card (which is what the listing is for, no substitutions or equivalents), then sending the PIN for free via some electronic method, or for something between zero and a buck in a regular envelope would have made sense. Sending that ratty sheet Priority Mail was a waste of everyone’s time and money; I advised buyers to factor that $5 into the card/minutes cost and to be aware that they were getting a shaky delivery of the product. The review was rejected. Amazon protects another big seller, surprise surprise. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-seller-protection-again/643347/2 "2012-12-07T22:10:10Z")
Did they give a reason? And was your review of the product, or the seller? Glancing at the feedback for that seller, I see at least a couple of reviews where people mentioned the sticker vs. actual card issue, including one 1/5 star review from Dec 3. But if you reviewed the phone instead, maybe that’s why Amazon rejected it. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-seller-protection-again/643347/3 "2012-12-07T22:14:08Z")
Actually, [here’s](http://www.amazon.com/review/R2LW0VNYM5UKF/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B002ZCW91Y&linkCode=&nodeID=&tag=) a 1-star review of the card I assume you bought, which they allowed past. Were you more profane in your review than you were in summarizing it here, by any chance? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-seller-protection-again/643347/4 "2012-12-07T23:33:33Z")
My review was completely polite; I don’t spew and rant on the major review sites where I have a long track record. The only thing I can see is that I focused more on seller policy than the product. I may try again and point out the product I received is not the product I ordered. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-seller-protection-again/643347/5 "2012-12-08T00:00:26Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Actually, [here’s](http://www.amazon.com/review/R2LW0VNYM5UKF/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B002ZCW91Y&linkCode=&nodeID=&tag=) a 1-star review of the card I assume you bought, which they allowed past. Were you more profane in your review than you were in summarizing it here, by any chance? As the plastic rutabaga sez, Amazon has allowed reviews more or less along the lines of what you say yours did. There may be some other issue. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-seller-protection-again/643347/6 "2012-12-08T00:31:42Z")
For reference, here’s the review as it was returned by Amazon. I suspect it’s because I emphasized the shipping cost issues too much: > [@](#): > > The price on this card is excellent and I have no issues with the sale itself. However, I was charged $4.99 for shipping - the only charged item in my whole cart - and I was NOT sent a physical Tracfone card! All that was sent to me was a sheet of paper with the PIN code on a sticker, and instructions for using it. Nowhere on the sheet was the seller name, contact information, anything that might help back up my $85 purchase should there be any problems or questions. This is NOT acceptable and I would have preferred to receive a complete Tracfone card as validation of the purchase. > > Since they sold me nothing but a string of numbers, this information could have been sent for free via email, via login to a secure site or just mailed in a plain envelope for something between free and a dollar. Five dollars to send a photocopied page via Priority Mail is just nonsense. > > So factor that extra $5 into the card and minutes cost when you buy here, and hope you have no trouble with the number string they send! ---
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-seller-protection-again/643347/7 "2012-12-08T01:12:33Z")
I have seen plenty of other people complain about shipping (and in cases where they should have known what they were getting). I am not familiar with amazon’s policies on leaving reviews, but I have read thousands of them - and I don’t get what is wrong with it. I am a little disappointed to hear they rejected it. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-seller-protection-again/643347/8 "2012-12-09T06:08:28Z")
> [@DataX](#): > > I have seen plenty of other people complain about shipping (and in cases where they should have known what they were getting). I am not familiar with amazon’s policies on leaving reviews, but I have read thousands of them - and I don’t get what is wrong with it. I am a little disappointed to hear they rejected it. Dude, Amazon is the motherfucking Devil. They abuse their warehouse employees to a ridiculous degree. I haven’t bought from them in over a year because of that. I use their reviews all the time, but I’m not about to give them my money if I can avoid it. Also, they won’t allow some more popular title to even be purchased as e-books. why? Because they can make a lot more money by making them only available as audiobooks. this is total bullshit, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![SpaceDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spacedog/32/9932_2.png) [@SpaceDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpaceDog)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-seller-protection-again/643347/9 "2012-12-09T10:13:14Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > Dude, Amazon is the motherfucking Devil. They abuse their warehouse employees to a ridiculous degree. I haven’t bought from them in over a year because of that. I use their reviews all the time, but I’m not about to give them my money if I can avoid it. > > Also, they won’t allow some more popular title to even be purchased as e-books. why? Because they can make a lot more money by making them only available as audiobooks. this is total bullshit, IMHO. I know this is the pit and everything, but do you have anything to back that up? Not that I don’t believe you necessarily (I know Amazon has done some shady things in the past and is particularly fond of pushing it’s weight around) but I’ve never heard those particular allegations. In particular, given how much they push the Kindle, I’m surprised they’d purposely prevent something being available for it. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-seller-protection-again/643347/10 "2012-12-09T12:04:48Z")
I’m having trouble understanding the complaint. An actual physical tracfone card doesn’t cost more to ship than an instruction sheet with PIN. An actual physical tracfone card could be scanned and sent by email. An actual physical tracfone card is just as likely to be non-functional as a PIN. If you didn’t factor in the $5 shipping before completing the transaction, you’re simply a fool. The only complaint you have is that the seller didn’t provide contact info. Inconvenient, but you do actually know who the seller is, and I presume can contact them through Amazon. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-seller-protection-again/643347/11 "2012-12-10T04:44:19Z")
> [@SpaceDog](#): > > I know this is the pit and everything, but do you have anything to back that up? Not that I don’t believe you necessarily (I know Amazon has done some shady things in the past and is particularly fond of pushing it’s weight around) but I’ve never heard those particular allegations. In particular, given how much they push the Kindle, I’m surprised they’d purposely prevent something being available for it. I tried to download Diane Duane’s first of 7 Wizarding books to my Kindle (“So You Want to Be a Wizard”, by far the most popular book in the series) for my wife to read. All the other 6 books can be bought for the Kindle as e-books, because they don’t sell well, but the first one is audiobook only. And I didn’t purchase it, because they pissed me off with that. Assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-seller-protection-again/643347/12 "2012-12-10T04:49:30Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > I tried to download Diane Duane’s first of 7 Wizarding books to my Kindle (“So You Want to Be a Wizard”, by far the most popular book in the series) for my wife to read. All the other 6 books can be bought for the Kindle as e-books, because they don’t sell well, but the first one is audiobook only. > > And I didn’t purchase it, because they pissed me off with that. Assholes. That sounds like a publisher problem, and not Amazon. Edit: also, it is available on the kindle [now](http://www.amazon.com/So-You-Want-Be-Wizard/dp/0152049401/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355115036&sr=8-1&keywords=so+you+want+to+be+a+wizard). I second the request for a cite re: warehouse employees. I’ve never heard this allegation either. ---
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-seller-protection-again/643347/13 "2012-12-10T04:53:41Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I’m having trouble understanding the complaint. An actual physical tracfone card doesn’t cost more to ship than an instruction sheet with PIN. An actual physical tracfone card could be scanned and sent by email. An actual physical tracfone card is just as likely to be non-functional as a PIN. If you didn’t factor in the $5 shipping before completing the transaction, you’re simply a fool. > > The only complaint you have is that the seller didn’t provide contact info. Inconvenient, but you do actually know who the seller is, and I presume can contact them through Amazon. I think it is legitimate. What if he wanted to give it as a gift? I expect to get what I was promised even if it is not needed. I’d be upset - for example if a product didn’t come with the packaging. Silly? Perhaps, but that is what I expect. After looking at the page it isn’t clear from the pic it is an actual card, but seems logical to assume it is. I can certainly see people not caring that there is a card, but not everyone thinks the same way. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-seller-protection-again/643347/14 "2012-12-10T05:57:11Z")
> [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > That sounds like a publisher problem, and not Amazon. Edit: also, it is available on the kindle [now](http://www.amazon.com/So-You-Want-Be-Wizard/dp/0152049401/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355115036&sr=8-1&keywords=so+you+want+to+be+a+wizard). > > I second the request for a cite re: warehouse employees. I’ve never heard this allegation either. Then fuck the publisher, too. Amazon probably encouraged it, so still fuck them. Also, really? You honestly need a quote on the Amazon warehouse debacle? This was all over the damn news, more than once. Here’s a quote from the following link: “…an investigation of Amazon’s Pennsylvania warehouse operations last year by the Allentown (Pa.) Morning Call, which also found indoor temperatures soared so high that Amazon had ambulances parked outside to take workers to the hospital.” [http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2017901782\_amazonwarehouse04.html](http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2017901782_amazonwarehouse04.html) Read the whole article. Amazon attempted to fudge on-the-job injury records, to the point of coercing employees and even a doctor. But wait!! There’s more. > **[I was a warehouse wage slave](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/mac-mcclelland-free-online-shipping-warehouses-labor/)** > > My brief, backbreaking, rage-inducing, low-paying, dildo-packing time inside the online-shipping machine. That’s an undercover article written by a journalist who worked at an Amazon warehouse for 3 days. she found it excruciating. It’s not even a question. Amazon are some major-league assholes, skating right up to the edge of illegality. In fact, there’s a federal lawsuit pending. I’m guessing we’ll see more about this in the news once the lawsuit is settled. Dude, assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-seller-protection-again/643347/15 "2012-12-10T06:20:15Z")
Hmn. The first article you linked to suggest a more nuanced situation. For example, below are some positive quotes. The second article doesn’t mention amazon specifically (edit: as the specific warehouse being described), and I’m loathe to accept it at face value because of that. Safe working conditions are important to me, but I can’t find the same vitriol as you. In fact, I am finding it difficult to take you seriously. You appear to stubbornly hold to the view that Amazon somehow is out to fuck the customer by withholding selling a book on Kindle, and that is utter nonsense. “…the company has a safety record better than most” “By the numbers, Amazon’s safety record stacks up well in an industry that has long been criticized for harsh working conditions and injuries.” ““To put it simply, it’s safer to work in an Amazon fulfillment center than in a department store.”” “She has been part of the massive blue-collar work force required to fulfill founder Jeff Bezos’ ambitious vision of Amazon as a company that rivals Microsoft and Apple in technological prowess, but also offers one-stop shopping worthy of a Wal-Mart.” “In an industry that often offers scant benefits, Amazon provides full-time employees with stock shares after two years on the job, a matching 401(k) and health insurance. Temporary workers, such as those hired during the holiday rush, can buy medical coverage through staffing agencies.” ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-seller-protection-again/643347/16 "2012-12-10T06:35:30Z")
> [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > Hmn. The first article you linked to suggest a more nuanced situation. For example, below are some positive quotes. The second article doesn’t mention amazon specifically (edit: as the specific warehouse being described), and I’m loathe to accept it at face value because of that. Safe working conditions are important to me, but I can’t find the same vitriol as you. In fact, I am finding it difficult to take you seriously. You appear to stubbornly hold to the view that Amazon somehow is out to fuck the customer by withholding selling a book on Kindle, and that is utter nonsense. > > “…the company has a safety record better than most” > “By the numbers, Amazon’s safety record stacks up well in an industry that has long been criticized for harsh working conditions and injuries.” > ““To put it simply, it’s safer to work in an Amazon fulfillment center than in a department store.”” > “She has been part of the massive blue-collar work force required to fulfill founder Jeff Bezos’ ambitious vision of Amazon as a company that rivals Microsoft and Apple in technological prowess, but also offers one-stop shopping worthy of a Wal-Mart.” > “In an industry that often offers scant benefits, Amazon provides full-time employees with stock shares after two years on the job, a matching 401(k) and health insurance. Temporary workers, such as those hired during the holiday rush, can buy medical coverage through staffing agencies.” Yes, their safety record is _wonderful_…as would ANY company’s be if they coerced employees and doctors into under-reporting safety incidents. Duh, dude. I’d also like to see you, or anyone you know, last two years in that job. As far as them offering health insurance, my employer does too, but nobody uses it, because it’s actually worse than not having insurance at all. I have zero faith in the quality of Amazon’s health insurance. Dude, they’re the subject of a federal lawsuit. At some point you’re either going to admit I have a point, or you’re going to start looking like their paid shill. “Federal lawsuit” and “employee coercion” are pretty unambiguous. and Jeff Bezos can go straight to hell. Amazon used to be pretty awesome. Bezos gutted the company’s soul, leaving a nice exterior, with undiluted greed running through its heart. ---
**Author:** ![drew870mitchell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drew870mitchell/32/3946_2.png) [@drew870mitchell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drew870mitchell)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-seller-protection-again/643347/17 "2012-12-10T06:59:27Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > Since Amazon fulfilled the phone and SD card, there was no shipping. The price on the minutes card (1 year/400 minutes) was good but there was a $5.00 shipping charge on it… oh, well. I’m confused. I thought “fulfilled by Amazon” meant that it was in one of their warehouses. Am I wrong? and is **al0752** joking? Jeff Bezos founded Amazon. He’s been with them since the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-seller-protection-again/643347/18 "2012-12-10T11:47:33Z")
> [@DataX](#): > > I think it is legitimate. What if he wanted to give it as a gift? I expect to get what I was promised even if it is not needed. There was a 1 star review complaining because the product was not gift appropriate. That’s a fair complaint. It’s even fair to simply complain that the delivered product was not accurately described. Nitro was complaining about not being able to validate his purchase, having contact info, and being charged $4.99 for shipping, none of which have anything to do with getting a physical Tracfone card. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-seller-protection-again/643347/19 "2012-12-10T13:23:12Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > and Jeff Bezos can go straight to hell. Amazon used to be pretty awesome. Bezos gutted the company’s soul, leaving a nice exterior, with undiluted greed running through its heart. I know. I remember the old days, when Amazon didn’t even charge for their books. You just had to trade them a Bedazzled handicraft made from used plastic water bottles or promise to start a backyard mulch pile. Then Bezos the Accursed conspired with Lucifer and decided to make it a for-profit organization, and it destroyed the entire world. Who among us doesn’t still bear the A-shaped scars? ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-seller-protection-again/643347/20 "2012-12-10T14:23:10Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > and Jeff Bezos can go straight to hell. Amazon used to be pretty awesome. Bezos gutted the company’s soul, leaving a nice exterior, with undiluted greed running through its heart. Are you high? “The company’s soul?” [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com)? I’m speechless. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-seller-protection-again/643347.md?page=2)