# Amazon sells book condoning child abuse **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 13, 2013, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806 "2013-11-13T09:05:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/1 "2013-11-13T09:05:15Z")
[To Train Up a Child](http://www.amazon.com/To-Train-Child-Michael-Pearl/dp/1892112000) I’m not about to buy a copy of the book, but from what I glean on the Intertubes, it teaches child rearing and discipline by child abuse, neglect and torture. One child has already been killed thanks to such advice: 7-year old [Lydia Schatz](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/for-gods-sake/post/beating-children-in-the-name-of-god/2011/08/18/gIQAqDFGOJ_blog.html). From the book: > [@](#): > > Give 10 licks at a time, more if the child resists. Be careful about using it in front of others – even at church; nosy neighbors might call social workers. Amazon should pull the book. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/2 "2013-11-13T10:41:40Z")
I for one would like to take the bold stance that when it comes to giving kids their licks, 10 is too much; 8 is enough. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/3 "2013-11-13T11:39:59Z")
I thought it only took 3 … ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/4 "2013-11-13T11:42:09Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I for one would like to take the bold stance that when it comes to giving kids their licks, 10 is too much; 8 is enough. > > 😃 My dad always trained me that a round dozen was appropriate… and that’s how I’m raising my kids. Need to get the book to make sure I don’t get caught ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/5 "2013-11-13T11:57:56Z")
This is a book that advocates starting corporal punishment at 4 months of age, locking children out of the house, starving kids for extended periods of time, and other similar things. It advocates this sort of treatment for ANY failure to immediately and unquestioningly submit to one’s parents. You don’t have to be a lovey-dovey hippy to object to this book. It’s truly sickening shit. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/6 "2013-11-13T12:01:36Z")
But the discount offer includes a free cattle prod. Surely that’s a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/7 "2013-11-13T12:24:15Z")
On another messageboard somewhere, someone is complaining that Amazon sells dildos. I want Amazon to continue to sell dildos. If that means they also sell things that I do not like, then so be it. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/8 "2013-11-13T12:47:46Z")
> [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](#): > > Amazon should pull the book. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/9 "2013-11-13T12:50:43Z")
> [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](#): > > Amazon should pull the book. Nonsense. If you object to the book, take it to the comments section on Amazon, or take it to the books author. ---
**Author:** ![willthekittensurvive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@willthekittensurvive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/willthekittensurvive)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/10 "2013-11-13T13:02:40Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Nonsense. If you object to the book, take it to the comments section on Amazon, or take it to the books author. carefull with the last bit > [@](#): > > On another note, Michael is an inductee into the International Knife Throwers Hall of Fame and holds several world titles, including Gold Cup winner of 2008-9, long distance thrower of the year with a record all time high of hitting a four inch target at 63 feet, and he is the undisputed best tomahawk thrower of 2009, holding the world title. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/11 "2013-11-13T13:07:26Z")
The best way to protest a book and make sure that nobody buys it or reads it is to post a link to it and give the full title of the book on one of the most popular message boards on the internet. Edit: Holy fuck this book is old. Is the OP going to complain about Ross Perot next? Did Amazon JUST now start selling this book? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/12 "2013-11-13T13:12:24Z")
I saw all the 5 star reviews and thought “please be the sarcastic Amazon reviews we know and love”. Thankfully they were. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/13 "2013-11-13T13:25:46Z")
I take it back. By the time I got to the second page it was full of 5 star reviews from gleeful child beaters. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/14 "2013-11-13T13:52:03Z")
I’m sure it’s a horrible book and its authors and advocates deserve to suffer an eternity on the Wheel of Pain, but it’s a pet peeve of mine to see review/comment sections manipulated to push an agenda—whether it’s a flood of oddly similar broken-Engrish reviews in the App Store raving that iFart Pro is the “best app evver!!!u should buy i use it all time!!!@@,” or an avalanche of oddly similar (somewhat more grammatical) 1-star Amazon reviews by self-appointed crusaders who obviously haven’t read the book but did read the recent Slate article about how awful it is (or at least heard about it on a friend’s Facebook feed). Exception made for sarcastic 5-star reviews, which are of course awesome. Amazon isn’t a public library. I would argue that the _Twilight_ books have inflicted far more damage on society than this dumb thing, and I’m not rallying for them to be banned. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/15 "2013-11-13T13:52:47Z")
Would those advocating that Amazon continue to permit the book’s presence on its website extend their tolerance to books, say, describing how to circumvent child pornography laws? Or, how 'bout child porn itself (disguised perhaps as ‘nature photos’)? This is too important a topic for the Pit. I would love to see this thread moved to GD (maybe later I’ll start one there. No time now . . .) And, please don’t tell me this is a straw man argument. Same problem would apply to child porn (assuming it wasn’t overtly illegal as shielded by ‘nature photos’ above). ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/16 "2013-11-13T13:58:57Z")
Another disgusting book Amazon should pull is called _On Becoming Babywise: Giving Your Infant the Gift of Nighttime Sleep by Gary Ezzo_. Ezzo advocates early crying it out. This is actually dangerous for small babies who cannot go that long between feedings without risking serious medical consequences. > [@](#): > > [Babywise Advice Linked to Dehydration, Failure to Thrive - Ezzo.info](http://www.ezzo.info/resources/timeline/81-timeline/107-babywise-advice-linked-to-dehydration-failure-to-thrive) > > The book’s feeding schedule, called Parent Directed Feeding (PDF), consists of feeding newborns at intervals of three to three and one-half hours (described as two and one-half to three hours from the end of the last 30-minute feeding) beginning at birth. Nighttime feedings are eliminated at eight weeks. > > This advice is in direct opposition to the latest AAP recommendations on newborn feeding (AAP Policy Statement, “Breastfeeding and the Use of Human Milk,” Pediatrics, Dec. 1997): “Newborns should be nursed whenever they show signs of hunger, such as increased alertness or activity, mouthing, or rooting. Crying is a late indicator of hunger. Newborns should be nursed approximately eight to 12 times every 24 hours until satiety.” > > Although demand feeding is endorsed by the Academy, WHO, and La Leche League among others, “Babywise” claims that demand feeding may be harmful and outlines a feeding schedule in contrast to it. The book makes numerous medical statements without references or research, despite that many are the antitheses of well-known medical research findings. In 190 pages, only two pediatric journals are referenced with citations dated 1982 and 1986. Ugh. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/17 "2013-11-13T13:59:14Z")
KarlGauss, I’m fine with free speech of almost any kind. So if you want to give a step by step instruction on how to commit a murder and get away with it, go ahead. You can’t do things like yell “Fire!” in a crowded theater because in that case the speech itself causes harm by causing people to panic and fear for their lives. But giving instructions on how to do illegal things is totally different than making people do illegal things. I’m perfectly fine with those books that teach people how to build fertilizer bombs and make their own guns or whatever as well. And I’m fine with sources that teach you how to make your own meth. I’m fine with books that deny the holocaust and rant that all Jews and Homosexuals should be put to death. If the speech directly incites a specific act of violence or other harmful action, then perhaps it should be restricted. And if the speech directly hurts someone like libel/slander, then that should be restricted too. But speech that may lead to someone else breaking a law? Absolutely should be allowed and encouraged. Free speech is a good thing, even when its carried out by people for ideas I am vehemently opposed to. And yes, that includes instructions on how to get away with child porn. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/18 "2013-11-13T14:00:36Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Would those advocating that Amazon continue to permit the book’s presence on its website extend their tolerance to books, say, describing how to circumvent child pornography laws? Or, how 'bout child porn itself (disguised perhaps as ‘nature photos’)? Yes, of course. I also support the right of booksellers to sell books on how to make explosives and income tax avoidance. As long as the subject is not overtly illegal in and of itself, the availability of such books is the price we pay for a free society. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/19 "2013-11-13T14:07:30Z")
Free speech can be a bitch sometimes. It doesn’t just apply when it’s a topic you agree with. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/20 "2013-11-13T14:13:43Z")
You know it amazes me how many people are out there that think their parenting philosophy is one-size-fits-all. Even if it could be proven they used this exact method with their kids and it worked that’s no guarantee it will work everywhere. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806.md?page=2)