# Amazon sells book condoning child abuse **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 13, 2013, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806 "2013-11-13T09:05:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/21 "2013-11-13T14:18:24Z")
Jesus Christ, free speech doesn’t mean everyone on earth has to lose their ability to exercise judgment. Neither the (alleged) child abusers nor the principle of free speech will suffer the slightest bit of restriction if Amazon chose not to sell the book anymore. Free speech does not mean that Amazon is compelled to sell anything in book format – and that ain’t censorship, either. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/22 "2013-11-13T14:20:00Z")
I’ll preface the following by saying I know nothing about this book and I think it’s probably a bad idea for Amazon to pull it. > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I’m sure it’s a horrible book and its authors and advocates deserve to suffer an eternity on the Wheel of Pain, but it’s a pet peeve of mine to see review/comment sections manipulated to push an agenda—whether it’s a flood of oddly similar broken-Engrish reviews in the App Store raving that iFart Pro is the “best app evver!!!u should buy i use it all time!!!@@,” or an avalanche of oddly similar (somewhat more grammatical) 1-star Amazon reviews by self-appointed crusaders who obviously haven’t read the book but did read the recent Slate article about how awful it is (or at least heard about it on a friend’s Facebook feed). Normally I’d agree with you, but I think “the parenting advice in this book might kill your child” is less agenda-pushing and more helpful information. > [@madmonk28](#): > > Free speech can be a bitch sometimes. It doesn’t just apply when it’s a topic you agree with. Amazon is a private entity. This issue has exactly zero to with free speech. Nobody is asking the government to make them stop selling this shitty book. ETA: ninja’d. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/23 "2013-11-13T14:21:49Z")
I just have no idea why anyone would want to lick a kid. Those things taste _terrible_. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/24 "2013-11-13T14:27:41Z")
I could have sworn that I wrote a sentence in my previous post that read, “Amazon can choose to sell the book or not. That’s their right as a private (as opposed to government) seller.” I support their right to sell it if they want to, or not carry it if they don’t want to. Neither should they be forced to sell it nor not sell it at all. Amazon should continue to do whatever it thinks will make them the most money. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/25 "2013-11-13T14:28:19Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Amazon isn’t a public library. I would argue that the _Twilight_ books have inflicted far more damage on society than this dumb thing, and I’m not rallying for them to be banned. Two points with this: First, you are right, Amazon is not a public library. This of course means that everyone making a free speech argument is wrong until someone advocates for the goverment to force Amazon to pull the book. Amazon can pull any book it wants for any reason and should if doing so is in its best interest as corporate entity or if a majority of stockholders support the decision. Second point: Seriously? Point out the number children who have died because of Twilight, and I will support asking booksellers to remove it. On preview I see others have already addressed point one. ---
**Author:** ![Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/26 "2013-11-13T14:29:30Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > As long as the subject is not overtly illegal in and of itself, the availability of such books is the price we pay for a free society. I’m not sure that’s completely accurate. I’ll accept that the availability of such books is the price we pay for a society where people are free to make such books available. I’m not sure it follows that a society which prevents such books becoming available is necessarily not free, in any substantive sense. But in this case, that’s all irrelevant anyway, since this book is literally someone being stupid on the internet. And allowing people to be stupid on the internet is definitely the price we pay for a society where we can all express ourselves freely online. It’s number 9,669 in Amazon’s bestseller list, so unlikely to be even in the top 100 of offensively stupid ideas being circulated today. I admit I laughed out loud to learn that it is number 43 in the Christian Living bestseller list. I don’t actually expect Amazon to vet every book they sell, the industrial processing of information without human intervention is what they do. If anyone complained, and if Amazon chose to withdraw this book from sale, I wouldn’t mind, but I don’t care if they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/27 "2013-11-13T14:31:00Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I could have sworn that I wrote a sentence in my previous post that read, “Amazon can choose to sell the book or not. That’s their right as a private (as opposed to government) seller.” I was responding to **madmonk28**. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/28 "2013-11-13T14:33:58Z")
The Amazon listing did have this gem of a review: > [@](#): > > Wonderful book. So glad somebody is finally brave enough to stand up for the pro-beating-up-babies movement. For too long, those little bald bastards have been walking (or crawling) all over us decent grown folk, and I for one am sick of it. These authors give such good advice it’s insane! I could sing the praises of these amazing, God-fearing baby-beaters all day, but I thought I’d take this opportunity to recommend a few other titles sure to be right up the alley of anyone who enjoys this book. > > Cooking for Company - Jeffrey Dahmer > Best Christmas Ever: A Couple’s Guide to the Holidays - Scott Peterson > Dog Bathing Made Easy - Michael Vick > > And last but not least, > > All Aboard: A Final Solution for Train Enthusiasts - Adolph Hitler > > Happy reading, everybody! ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/29 "2013-11-13T14:35:19Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I would argue that the _Twilight_ books have inflicted far more damage on society than this dumb thing, and I’m not rallying for them to be banned. Typical slacktivist. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/30 "2013-11-13T14:37:46Z")
> [@bump](#): > > The Amazon listing did have this gem of a review: Coffee just went all over my keyboard via my nose. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/31 "2013-11-13T14:50:08Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > I just have no idea why anyone would want to lick a kid. Those things taste _terrible_. Well, for one thing, they tend to get ice cream smeared all over their faces when working with a cone. I think that was the big draw for my dog. ---
**Author:** ![MagicEyes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@MagicEyes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MagicEyes)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/32 "2013-11-13T14:54:28Z")
> [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](#): > > [To Train Up a Child](http://www.amazon.com/To-Train-Child-Michael-Pearl/dp/1892112000) > > I’m not about to buy a copy of the book, but from what I glean on the Intertubes, it teaches child rearing and discipline by child abuse, neglect and torture. One child has already been killed thanks to such advice: 7-year old [Lydia Schatz](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/for-gods-sake/post/beating-children-in-the-name-of-god/2011/08/18/gIQAqDFGOJ_blog.html). I’ve seen this book mentioned in several articles about children dying from abuse, most recently this one: > **[The Tragic Death of Ethiopian Adoptee Hana Williams, and How It Could Happen...](https://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/11/hana_williams_the_tragic_death_of_an_ethiopian_adoptee_and_how_it_could.html)** > > On the night of May 11, 2011, sometime around midnight, 13-year-old Hana Williams fell face-forward in her parents’ backyard. Adopted from Ethiopia thr ... It’s a horrible book and the authors should be ashamed for putting it out there. I think the publisher should be on the hook for this. I wonder what would happen if a child who was abused because of this book sued the publisher or the authors. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/33 "2013-11-13T14:57:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > …Amazon is a private entity. This issue has exactly zero to with free speech. Nobody is asking the government to make them stop selling this shitty book. > > ETA: ninja’d. I never mentioned the government in my post, and limiting access to a book has a lot to do with free speech. If we’re going to pull books just because they are full of bad ideas, then I vote we start with the Bible and any cookbook written by Guy Fieri ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/34 "2013-11-13T15:18:31Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > I just have no idea why anyone would want to lick a kid. Those things taste _terrible_. You have to at least sear it first, so the skin is crispy. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/35 "2013-11-13T15:28:32Z")
I see the publishing date was 1994 and it was the 17th edition. So is that about the time the authors ran out of kids to beat? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/36 "2013-11-13T15:34:58Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I never mentioned the government in my post, and limiting access to a book has a lot to do with free speech. If we’re going to pull books just because they are full of bad ideas, then I vote we start with the Bible and any cookbook written by Guy Fieri Nobody is suggesting that the authors of the book be denied access to a printing press. “We” are saying that Amazon should exercise some judgment and not sell a book that tries to convince people that activities that some people go to prison for (i.e., beating children with objects) is not a helpful childhood development strategy. Again, freedom of speech does not mean that businesses cannot exercise any judgment whatsoever in what products they sell. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/37 "2013-11-13T15:35:15Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > I see the publishing date was 1994 and it was the 17th edition. So is that about the time the authors ran out of kids to beat? Forget Dr. Spock. Our new hero is Dr. Spank. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/38 "2013-11-13T15:51:52Z")
I don’t see calls for banning this any different than asking not to link to racist, anti-vax or pro-ana websites. Google exercises this kind of judgment all the time. Whenever you do a search, most people click on the first three websites that show up. Google has a great deal of control over exactly what those websites are. They’ve changed the rules multiple times in an effort to weed out content farms and MFA sites. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/39 "2013-11-13T16:05:12Z")
> [@MagicEyes](#): > > I think the publisher should be on the hook for this. I wonder what would happen if a child who was abused because of this book sued the publisher or the authors. The publisher is listed as “No Greater Joy Ministries”. Sounds like the Pearls themselves published it, or their church did. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806/40 "2013-11-13T16:39:50Z")
Spare the quarter-inch plumbing hose, spoil the infant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-sells-book-condoning-child-abuse/673806.md?page=3)