# Amazon should choose Detroit... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 11, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081 "2017-09-11T20:21:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![LynnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@LynnM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LynnM)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/1 "2017-09-11T20:21:16Z")
For their new 2nd headquarters, wouldn’t the Detroit metro area meet their specs? In addition, they’d help to regenerate the city. A lot of cheap land in Detroit, at least for now. Why not? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/2 "2017-09-11T20:23:53Z")
> [@LynnM](#): > > For their new 2nd headquarters, wouldn’t the Detroit metro area meet their specs? In addition, they’d help to regenerate the city. A lot of cheap land in Detroit, at least for now. Why not? these things usually go wherever they can get the biggest tax breaks. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/3 "2017-09-11T20:24:42Z")
> **[Here are the cities that meet the criteria for Amazon’s second headquarters](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/here-are-the-cities-that-meet-the-criteria-for-amazons-second-headquarters-2017-09-07)** > > Amazon on Thursday announced it was looking for another city to host what it calls its second headquarters. Given the company’s stated criteria, here’s how... For most of the reasons listed in this article, Detroit wouldn’t fit the bill. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/4 "2017-09-11T20:51:54Z")
The New York Times did an analysis and picked Denver as the best choice for Amazon. They eliminated Detroit because it does not have a good jobs outlook, one of their top requirements. Amazon doesn’t want to help regenerate a city; they want to go someplace that is already doing well. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/5 "2017-09-11T21:41:16Z")
Many people think the Democrats ought to move their national organization to Detroit. As in this Politico \* [**article**](http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/democratic-party-detroit-dnc-214628) by an ex-chairman of the California Democratic Party, and ex-Californian elected state treasurer. I am one of them. - Note the cheery expressions on those unutterable old asses faces. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/6 "2017-09-11T22:46:04Z")
The Canadian news sources I listen to are treating it as a toss-up between Vancouver and Toronto. No bias there, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/7 "2017-09-11T22:47:48Z")
> [@LynnM](#): > > A lot of cheap land in Detroit, at least for now. Why not? Amazon has to compete with Google/Facebook/Apple/etc. for tech talent. How many of those people want to move to Detroit? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/8 "2017-09-11T22:53:23Z")
The whole concept of dual headquarters seems very bizarre to me. What other companies have them? Conversely I could see moving one or more divisions elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/9 "2017-09-11T23:36:31Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Amazon has to compete with Google/Facebook/Apple/etc. for tech talent. > > How many of those people want to move to Detroit? A giant corporate hub full of fresh-faced tech professionals has to be staffed. These people aren’t going to want to move to a city known for crime, poverty, urban decay, and blasted industrial moonscapes. The reason there’s cheap real estate in Detroit is that everyone who could move out of Detroit has already moved out of Detroit. If cheap land is all you want, you can buy millions of acres of cornfield in the middle of Iowa and build a new corporate headquarters there. But cheap land isn’t all you want. You want nearby universities, you want good schools, you want services, you want culture, you want compliant local government. Yes, all that can be built from scratch, or rebuilt in the case of Detroit. But it’s a lot easier when it already exists. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/10 "2017-09-11T23:42:00Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > The whole concept of dual headquarters seems very bizarre to me. What other companies have them? Conversely I could see moving one or more divisions elsewhere. Many companies do, if one can be used as a tax haven. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/11 "2017-09-11T23:50:14Z")
Quicken, especially their very large mortgage division, already moved to Detroit and seems to be doing great so it isn’t impossible but I wouldn’t count on Amazon doing it. Besides the obvious, one of the other problem that Detroit has is location. I don’t know if Amazon wants to build logistics centers near its new headquarters but Detroit is not the right location for that if they want to stage major logistics infrastructure near there. It is north of Canada and gets terrible weather during the winter. That isn’t good for a company that specializes in fast delivery. They would be better off with a more central location in an area with a good airport geared for mass cargo shipments (e.g., Denver, Memphis or even Dallas). Problem #1032 with Detroit is the high tax rate and rampant corruption. A company as big as Amazon (or most companies for that matter) will not go there without huge tax breaks. Detroit does not have any money so they can’t do that very easily. There is also no guarantee that the huge amounts of money that they would pay in taxes would go to the stated purposes. They aren’t running a charity to support chronically mismanaged cities. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/12 "2017-09-11T23:54:12Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > The whole concept of dual headquarters seems very bizarre to me. What other companies have them? Conversely I could see moving one or more divisions elsewhere. Well, companies like Nissan and Toyota have their corporate HQ in one place (Tennessee and Texas respectively) but also have large engineering/R&D facilities elsewhere (Farmington Hills and York Twp. MI, respectively) > [@Lemur866](#): > > A giant corporate hub full of fresh-faced tech professionals has to be staffed. These people aren’t going to want to move to a city known for crime, poverty, urban decay, and blasted industrial moonscapes. Um, the linked article said Amazon was looking at **metropolitan areas.** The entire Detroit Metro area (which is basically all of Wayne and most of Macomb and Oakland counties) isn’t a blighted wasteland like you seem to think it is. > [@](#): > > The reason there’s cheap real estate in Detroit is that everyone who could move out of Detroit has already moved out of Detroit. I love having people (who probably haven’t even set foot in the state of Michigan) tell me about how things are here. > [@](#): > > If cheap land is all you want, you can buy millions of acres of cornfield in the middle of Iowa and build a new corporate headquarters there. But cheap land isn’t all you want. You want nearby universities, Wayne State University University of Detroit Mercy University of Michigan Dearborn Lawrence Technological University > [@](#): > > you want good schools, plenty of good public and private school systems in the immediate area. > [@](#): > > you want culture, what does this even mean? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/13 "2017-09-12T00:02:37Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Um, the linked article said Amazon was looking at **metropolitan areas.** The entire Detroit Metro area (which is basically all of Wayne and most of Macomb and Oakland counties) isn’t a blighted wasteland like you seem to think it is. I daresay you could extend that out west to Washtenaw County, since the airport is closer to Ann Arbor than to someplace like Warren or Southfield. I’d rather see the Amazon HQ go to the Grand Rapids area, as that’s actually a booming metropolitan area, one of the best in the country. But Grand Rapids, like Detroit, lacks something Amazon is actually looking for: Good public transit. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/14 "2017-09-12T00:22:45Z")
> [@LynnM](#): > > For their new 2nd headquarters, wouldn’t the Detroit metro area meet their specs? In addition, they’d help to regenerate the city. A lot of cheap land in Detroit, at least for now. “Dead Or Alive, You Are Coming With Me.” ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/15 "2017-09-12T00:27:31Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Quicken, especially their very large mortgage division, already moved to Detroit and seems to be doing great so it isn’t impossible but I wouldn’t count on Amazon doing it. Nitpick. Quicken is based in Menlo Park, while Intuit (Quicken’s former parent company) is based in Mountain View. Quicken Loans, a completely separate company, is based in Detroit. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/16 "2017-09-12T01:27:08Z")
Didn’t get the “good jobs outlook” bit at all … Amazon comes in and there _is_ a good jobs outlook. Actually a few tech start-ups and talent [have been](http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2015/06/03/411765237/detroit-hopes-to-drive-tech-startups-away-from-silicon-valley) locating in Detroit. The old auto factories represent in-place infrastructure, not just cheap land, ready to be repurposed. Lots of engineers who already live there. But as that article notes, the winters … If you are going to attract talent to a place with real winters have good skiing nearby. I wouldn’t put it past Bezos though. It would push Detroit back into full recovery and vibrancy and make a political statement that would please him I think. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/17 "2017-09-12T01:27:26Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Well, companies like Nissan and Toyota have their corporate HQ in one place (Tennessee and Texas respectively) but also have large engineering/R&D facilities elsewhere (Farmington Hills and York Twp. MI, respectively) Right, but when you ask about their corporate headquarters you will get the answers Tennessee and Texas. Yet Amazon says: > [@](#): > > Amazon said the new campus will eventually be a “full equal” to its current Seattle headquarters. [https://www.recode.net/2017/9/7/16266142/new-amazon-headquarters-rfp-north-america](https://www.recode.net/2017/9/7/16266142/new-amazon-headquarters-rfp-north-america) ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/18 "2017-09-12T01:36:40Z")
The same arguments for Detroit can also be made other Rust Belt cities – Cleveland, St. Louis, Gary (think of it as “metropolitan Chicago”), etc. > [@](#): > > If cheap land is all you want, you can buy millions of acres of cornfield in the middle of Iowa and build a new corporate headquarters there. Hell, these cities will GIVE Amazon land. St. Louis gave the National Geospatial Agency [99 acres near downtown](http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/st-louis-prepares-for-nga-s-billion-dollar-move/article_39ae893a-2504-5004-a308-1fed845ae813.html), and that was just to keep the agency from leaving. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/19 "2017-09-12T01:48:15Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > But as that article notes, the winters … what about them? we’re not buried under feet of snow from November to March. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/20 "2017-09-12T02:12:04Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > The reason there’s cheap real estate in Detroit is that everyone who could move out of Detroit has already moved out of Detroit. > [@jz78817](#): > > I love having people (who probably haven’t even set foot in the state of Michigan) tell me about how things are here. Here’s wiki on the subject of Detroit’s population: > [@](#): > > Detroit reached its population peak in the 1950 census. The peak population was 1.8 million people. … by the 2010 census, the city had less than 40 percent of that number, with just over 700,000 residents. The city has declined in population in each census since 1950. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081.md?page=2)